Brainstorming on a tire carrier idea.

[K6UK]

So, I've been thinking hard about how to get a tire carrier I'll be happy with, and I'm coming up a little frustrated. I like the idea of a rear bumper - but the way the 4runner is designed, unless you start playing with fiberglass those side panels are just enormous. I thought about throwing a tire on the roof, but I want to be able to drive into underground parking lots. The hitch mounted carrier is pretty good, but I hate having to tilt the thing down to get in the hatch.

So, here is my crazy idea - which I am well aware may be impossible - or may just be a bad idea. It's 2AM cut me some slack:

What if we mounted the spare directly to the rear hatch, and beefed up the gas springs (and yes their mounts) to handle the load? Then we could still pop the hatch as needed (if we can still get to the latch) and the tire would simply lift out of the way.

Now... I do realize that the springs may have to be significantly larger, how much? I don't know, maybe I could call a spring place and find out. And if the tire was off the hatch - we could have a catapult on our hands.
I'll give you that one.

But other than that, what do you think? Do you think the door hinges and the trunk latch could take the extra weight?

Just a thought,

-Mike

[expat]

LIke you say, there are problems with the idea but reinforcing the hatch might be the trickiest. I haven't pulled the interior cladding so I don't know, but you'd need to get to the inside of the hatch to add some reinforcement plates I would think.

I doubt there'd be a gas shock suitable for carrying the weight of a wheel and tire in this application, but again is a good idea in theory.

Again just throwing ideas around..if you went with attaching the spare tire to the hatch, it would be so fine to make the rear hatch swing out instead of up. Locate the hatch on hinges so there is no need to lift the hatch up. There'd have to be a way to do this, after all the aftermarket "tuner" world is going crazy on lambo doors (not gullwing doors) at the moment.

Maybe some ideas could be stolen from the "pimp my ride" type shows that do lots of custom work. I can't recall the name of the show off hand but there's one show where two teams try to outdo each other on customizing cars. They often have lots of clever and cheap ways to make doors and hatches open. Thye even had one team design a door and seat combo that actually slid out from the car, you sat in the seat and the whole thing slid you back in! Not too practical for when it is raining tho - you'd be saturated by the time it put you in to the car!

Also, attaching the wheel to the hatch doesn't help solve the problem of what to to with gas cans. This is another important reason for a swing out arm.

[bulldog]

Another thing to watch for would be the rear window, as you put mounts and reinforcement in you need to make sure the rear window mechanism is still able to move. Or you can just mount it so the window stays closed all the time.



I'm taking my 4Runner to 4x4labs in a couple of weeks, I want them to build a rear bumper and carrier as part of a couple of things. I will see what hey have to say about making a product, features, price, etc. They might require a 4RUnner with out a body lift as well for measurements.

Building a full function adn low volume rear bumper will be pricey, but I don't believe anymore than modifying the rear hatch. I will post up once the ball starts rolling on their side.

[97kurt]

Two ideas...

Go look at the shrockworks xterra bumper, something like that could probably be built for your 4runners pretty easily. No fiberglass required.

The other idea is something Joel saw at big bear. It was a hitch mounted tire carrier like CBI's but it swung out instead of down. Nice thing about that is that you can remove it when your not on the trail. Downside... exit angle.

[Dealmaker]

Instead of the fiberglass panels, why not just have single metal "wings" coming up from the top-inside part of the bumper to cover/fill that void? As an option those metal wings can be painted to match the body.

So, I've been thinking hard about how to get a tire carrier I'll be happy with, and I'm coming up a little frustrated. I like the idea of a rear bumper - but the way the 4runner is designed, unless you start playing with fiberglass those side panels are just enormous. ...

-Mike

[K6UK]

Okay, so I have another Idea I want to throw your way.

Imagine building a tire/jerry can carrier that slides to the right (or the left) instead of swinging. It would be mounted on some kind of linear bearing right at our bumper. Imagine a square piece of tubing with a slit in on the topside mounted right above the reciver hitch. The tire could then slide (telescoping) to the right and out of the way of the hatch. This would allow a compact mount that doesn't get in the way of the rear lights. It also wouldn't reduce our departure angle because it would be above the reciever.

Also it could be secured open or closed with a pin.
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972416-M.jpg
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972423-M.jpg

-Mike

[Teotwaki]

Okay, so I have another Idea I want to throw your way.

Imagine building a tire/jerry can carrier that slides to the right (or the left) instead of swinging. It would be mounted on some kind of linear bearing right at our bumper. Imagine a square piece of tubing with a slit in on the topside mounted right above the reciver hitch. The tire could then slide (telescoping) to the right and out of the way of the hatch. This would allow a compact mount that doesn't get in the way of the rear lights. It also wouldn't reduce our departure angle because it would be above the reciever.

Also it could be secured open or closed with a pin.
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972416-M.jpg
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972423-M.jpg

-Mike

Patent the basic idea quickly! I think that you just solved a whole host of problems as well as laying claim to the "unique factor", always good for sales.

[AlexJet]

CBI Off-road is preparing us a rear bumper. Andries is also heading to 4x4labs. So we might have some rear bumper - tire carrier solution soon.

[97kurt]

I like that idea, but that design could pose some problems when your in a parking lot and a car is parked fairly close to you.

[Jared]

Okay, so I have another Idea I want to throw your way.

Imagine building a tire/jerry can carrier that slides to the right (or the left) instead of swinging. It would be mounted on some kind of linear bearing right at our bumper. Imagine a square piece of tubing with a slit in on the topside mounted right above the reciver hitch. The tire could then slide (telescoping) to the right and out of the way of the hatch. This would allow a compact mount that doesn't get in the way of the rear lights. It also wouldn't reduce our departure angle because it would be above the reciever.

Also it could be secured open or closed with a pin.
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972416-M.jpg
http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972423-M.jpg

-Mike

I really like that idea. With a little engineering, it could work out nicely. Oh yeah, patent the idea!

[expat]

I like your ideas. How would you mount the square tube onto the truck in this design?

I guess the problem still remain tho, that departure angle has not been improved and this is something I think most people who are setting up a spare wheel and jerry can carrier are going to want. Plus the protection of a full steel rear bumper.

As to cars parked next to you. just back up a few inches! :poke:

[expat]

Instead of the fiberglass panels, why not just have single metal "wings" coming up from the top-inside part of the bumper to cover/fill that void? As an option those metal wings can be painted to match the body.

Weight might be a concern as the "wings" are pretty big on the 4th gen.

[Teotwaki]

http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/129972423-M.jpg


How about on the left side a dual gas can carrier that would telescope out to the left?

[bulldog]

Definitely a very innivative way of looking at it.

I think expat has raised a couple of concerns. One of my concerns would be to make a design that will be very stable and solid. A tire sitting up like that causes a lot of stress on the components holding it.

Looks like things are finally happening for us for aftermarket parts. Hopefully there will be a few options for the rear bumpers as well. Tehn we will have options for sliders, front adn rear bumpers and hopefully soon some options for full belly skids too. Just need roofrack and cargo system options :devil: (oh yeah and a nice bank manager)

[Teotwaki]

..................I guess the problem still remain tho, that departure angle has not been improved ..............

If you are only talking about the stock bumper, yes. Getting the spare out from underneath will help as mine has scuff marks from dragging on things. Even without a spare tire out there it would be good to get gas and water cans and Hi-Lift securely mounted (and not on the roof or inside the 4Runner) and easily accessible.

[Cruiserhead]

Very cool idea, I like the out-of-norm thinking! I see it's kind of like the Xterra rear carrier that replaces only the center, leaving the side plastic.

-concerns:
-sliding mechanism could add alot of weight and needs to be very heavy duty
-sliding mech could get jammed w/ dirt,debris or a good hit from rockcrawling-type terrain
-it might need more mounting points than just the rear crossmember. Other bumper "wings" bolt to the frame rails- so it "boxes" the entire rear of the frame.
-if you are in a narrow spot (trail or parking) you would not be able to open the hatch.

It would be cool if there was one hydraulic piston inside the horizontal tube so you could slide the tire carrier with a push of a button ;) but you would still have to deal with all the concerns above-

still maybe it's an idea worth developing- kinda cool and unique...

[K6UK]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

I've been giving more thought to the idea, and yes there are a few hurdles - especially building something reliable no matter how filthy it gets. But with the right bearing system and materials I think it could work. I have to look into how I would mount it.

Something hit me yesterday - what if we didn't need the thing to telescope as far? We could put a hinge on the end of everything... have it telescope to the edge of the bumper, and at that point the gate would be made free to swing on the hinge (before full extension the gate would be held captive by the rail) this would allow us more room to mount a gas can. It still will not block tail lights until it is extended - but swings like a normal gate to avoid cars in the next space.

Here's a quick mock up of what I am talking about:

http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/130264628-M.jpg


http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/131249564-L.gif
More complicated for sure... and this design would be heavier. But it would be cool to have room for the tire and a gas can.

Also... since the rack has to slide a shorter distance there may now be room for a linear actuator to power the thing over if so desired.

[AlexJet]

Interesting idea. The only concern I have is that all necessary effort of working out the idea and building it might be equal to design a bumper. You still have to work out the clearance and weld/bolt it to the frame; may be cut off the middle part of the bumper (as done on Xterra).
Sorry for my comments, your ideas are great, but I just giving my opinion.

[K6UK]

No worries on the comments! I agree that it would take some working out.
I am excited about a bumper too... but I'm concerned about how any bumper will turn out looking - so this is another option anyway.

Thanks again.

[AlexJet]

...but I'm concerned about how any bumper will turn out looking ...

Me too.
I didn't see what CBI is preparing for us. Steve (Krazytoy) promised post some images.
I saw the 3rd Gen bumper from 4x4labs posted by Andries. Looks nice. I hope when Andries will be back from 4x4labs, he would tell us what the situation there and if they would be building the bumper for us.

[K6UK]

Okay... so I animated my bumper idea:

http://mikemillar.smugmug.com/photos/131249564-L.gif


Well, at least I'll never be this much of a geek: http://www.shiphorns.com/media/

[Joel]

LOL Thats awesome!

[Cruiserhead]

It's a fun mental exercise but I don't think it's getting you anything... if you use your design w/ a pin and swingout at the same location, it would be like the xterra bumper. simple and cheap to make.

Tire on one side, piviot on the other - that way when open, the tire will clear the hatch.

see here:
http://shrockworks.com/Xterra-Rear-Bumper-&-Spare-Tire-Carrier-Swing-Away-Tire-Rack-2nd-Gen-Xterra-pr-16160.html

[K6UK]

Well... it actually does buy a couple of things:

1. You don't have to swing the gate full open to open the hatch.
2. You have more real-estate to work with, for the gas can etc.
3. My truck already leans a bit to the left... so I could put the tire on the right and still swing right.

Now, I am with you that these few advantages probably come with a pricetag.

[Krazytoy]

Me too.
Steve (Krazytoy)

Steve is not (Krazytoy)
Krazytoy=Jason
Rokbrkr=Steve

Just to clearify! Pics. are posted. Good idea on the slide idea, might have to give that some thought!

[Bala de Plata]

Well, at least I'll never be this much of a geek: http://www.shiphorns.com/media/

Off topic, I know. But what in the hell, I've seen some strange hobbies before but that is just weird.

[AlexJet]

Steve is not (Krazytoy)
Krazytoy=Jason
Rokbrkr=Steve

Just to clearify! Pics. are posted. Good idea on the slide idea, might have to give that some thought!

Sorry, my mistake.

[Krazytoy]

Sorry, my mistake.

LOL
No worries! Just want to keep everyone's names straight.

[Jared]

LOL
No worries! Just want to keep everyone's names straight.

Thanks Bob.