Design Inputs For Aluminess 4Runner Bumper

[Teotwaki]

I'm starting a new thread to provide our inputs to them. Hopefully they will offer discounts in some form to our members.

PM from Aluminess


I would like to start a discussion with the members of the Toyota 120 Platforms Forum that had expressed an interest in these bumpers.

While we probably won’t be able to incorporate all suggestions…we would love to have your input on what you would like to see in the bumper design for both the front and rear bumpers. You can take a look at our bumper styles on our website, www.aluminess.com as a starting point.

[dbiii]

my suggestions....

1. allow for the use of the stock fog lights (06+) if possible
2. keep the design similar to shrockworks? :)
3. allow for use with upgraded skidplates (or design and sell one specifically for the bumper)

[Photog]

The idea here is to have another option to other bumpers, and get a bumper that is much lighter weight.

I would not want to give up strength at the corners, for bumping into trees, rocks, minivans, etc. Also, I would not want it to fold up with an animal strike.

Therefore I would want a compromise between the lightest possible bumper and the strongest possible bumper.

Make the external portion of the bumper from aluminum, that is attached to a simple steel substructure. The steel portion would connect the frame to the bumper, support the bumper wings, and provide a winch mounting plate.

About 1/2 of the bumper would be aluminum, and 1/2 steel. This would reduce bumper weight by approximately 25% - 35% of a comporable steel bumper.

It definitely should have provisions for a good front-skidplate.

Most folks (including me) like the Shrockworks and Perkins design styles.

[MysticZ]

Perkins thread so Aluminess can see their bumper.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8229&page=5

[JAM07Sport]

The idea here is to have another option to other bumpers, and get a bumper that is much lighter weight.

I would not want to give up strength at the corners, for bumping into trees, rocks, minivans, etc. Also, I would not want it to fold up with an animal strike.

Therefore I would want a compromise between the lightest possible bumper and the strongest possible bumper.

Make the external portion of the bumper from aluminum, that is attached to a simple steel substructure. The steel portion would connect the frame to the bumper, support the bumper wings, and provide a winch mounting plate.

About 1/2 of the bumper would be aluminum, and 1/2 steel. This would reduce bumper weight by approximately 25% - 35% of a comporable steel bumper.

It definitely should have provisions for a good front-skidplate.

Most folks (including me) like the Shrockworks and Perkins design styles.

I think they should be able to design the bumper just as strong as a steel one with all aluminum. The best part would be no rust or powder coat to chip off. It could be anidozed black. I like hoops but they could be a option to the base bumper. The winch fairlead heeds to be much higher then the other designs.

Would be awesome if you could fit little light forces in for fog lights and tabs on top for big ones.

[Teampez]

my first suggestion,,,, please dont tell the customers that it will be shipped on XX after getting payment in full, then shipping it 6 months later. :drink:

[VCV79]

I like how all-pro's tacoma plate bumper dips in the middle following the lines of the grill.

http://allprooffroad.com/photos/eventsgallery/category/9/asInline?limit=1&start=3

[Litupagain]

The idea here is to have another option to other bumpers, and get a bumper that is much lighter weight.

I would not want to give up strength at the corners, for bumping into trees, rocks, minivans, etc. Also, I would not want it to fold up with an animal strike.

Therefore I would want a compromise between the lightest possible bumper and the strongest possible bumper.

Make the external portion of the bumper from aluminum, that is attached to a simple steel substructure. The steel portion would connect the frame to the bumper, support the bumper wings, and provide a winch mounting plate.

About 1/2 of the bumper would be aluminum, and 1/2 steel. This would reduce bumper weight by approximately 25% - 35% of a comporable steel bumper.

It definitely should have provisions for a good front-skidplate.

Most folks (including me) like the Shrockworks and Perkins design styles.

This sums up what I need. The animal part, the shrock design, and the ship time are what is important to me. I'll put 10% down if it ships in 6 months, but I'll do 100% if it ships in <1 month. I would like a 1Kish price point too.

[Teotwaki]

On the Aluminess FJ bumper I do not like just how open the wheel well area is as well as how the tire can fling rocks and mud forward
http://www.aluminess.com/img/toyota-bumper-5_lg.jpg
Also it does not flow well into the existing plastic of the wheel well lips and the white plastic grill piece around the headlamps.

[Aluminess]

Thanks everyone for your posts, they are definitely helpful in the design process as our goal is to satisfy our customers!

We would like to address a couple issues:
1) Each vehicle has its own specific mounting location and all manufacturers must start their design from that point and then proceed to fit the vehicle. Bumpers may look similar form one manufacturer to the next because of this point. Copying or replication of another manufacturers design is inappropriate and unethical. When we start our design we will find a vehicle, use our design concepts, build out of aluminum, and make the best fit from out point of view.
2) As for attesting to the strength of our all-aluminum bumpers, what we can tell you is that our bumpers have hit bear, deer, elk, k-rails, and more... and in every instance have protected the vehicle. Here are a few links with testimonials from our customers

-This is a link to the Sportsmobile forum where the customer hit a bear with one of our front bumpers....http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1974&hilit=aluminess+bear

-This is a link to a post on the Sportsmobile forum with pictures of our bumper after being hit by a ford Mustang...it also includes a picture of the mustang....http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4017&hilit=wilson+hit

-Here is a review from one of our customers on our front bumper for the FJ Cruiser, after taking it out on the trail and putting it through some testing... http://disabledexplorers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=35

Some more questions…
-What lights are customers interested in?
-What year/model vehicle are most customers interested in?

[MysticZ]

For me as long as I have fog lights in the bumper, brand is not a issue. All I need to figure out is where to integrate my turn signals since the 2005 flasher are mounted below the bumper with the fog lights.

[Photog]

I think they should be able to design the bumper just as strong as a steel one with all aluminum. ........

Aluminum is 1/2 the weight and 1/2 the strength of steel. To produce something from amuminum, that is the same strength as steel, twice as much aluminum is typically necessary. This makes it the same weight also.

Maybe the steel bumpers are stronger than necessary for this application, and a similar aluminum bumper is strong enough. Or it is possible that Aluminess designs the substructure in a way that provides more support than the typical steel designs. Looking at 1LegLance's FJ bumper (http://disabledexplorers.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=97&Itemid=35), I would say that there is no extra substructure to support this idea.

As a mechanical engineer in aerospace, I know that aluminum is a good material choice for many applications.
I hope these bumpers are as stout as Aluminess is suggesting, since I plan on getting a pair of their bumpers for our Roadtrek van.

Maybe Aluminess could post an image of the backside of the Tundra bumper, with a short explanation of what gives it similar strength to a steel bumper, and still weigh much less than the steel bumper.

I'm sure this isn't the first time this question has been posed to Aluminess.

Give them a chance to show their stuff, since this is a Vendor thread. :wavey:

[Teotwaki]

I think that posting up pictures of the mounting of the FJC bumper would be more appropriate as we have the same frame and mounting points.

I don't need the strength of steel when Aluminum is a thousand times more strong than my plastic bumper. :rotflmao:

[Photog]

.......I don't need the strength of steel when Aluminum is a thousand times more strong than my plastic bumper. :rotflmao:

Touche :)
I still have my plastic bumper, and I don't consider it to be protection for the vehicle.

[Ludedude]

I think that posting up pictures of the mounting of the FJC bumper would be more appropriate as we have the same frame and mounting points.

I don't need the strength of steel when Aluminum is a thousand times more strong than my plastic bumper. :rotflmao:

Exactly! I'll happily take the weight savings over a steel bumper. If I hit a kangaroo or a bear I'll take my chances. :jester:

[Aluminess]

We have been making all aluminum bumpers for nine years now and the aluminum bumper's strength and durability is based on the engineering design and the aluminum alloy chosen. Aluminum is 1/3 the weight of steel, and the strength is in the design, like fighter jets or the space shuttle which would never get off the ground in steel. Aluminum does not rust and the powder coat finish on aluminum is a better quality than on steel. Lighter weight means better suspension performance, less fatigue on brakes, alignment and tires. For example, our FJ bumper is 9 lbs more than the stock bumper so there is no need to up grade suspension. If you do upgrade your suspension you get better performance however, if you add a 100+ pound steel front bumper, then your performance is less than stock. So our goal is better performance, better finish, no rust, winch ready, protection from impact (relative to what you hit at what speed, deer no problem) and lower overall cost from suspension upgrades to wear and tear on your vehicle's performance components

It is not necessary to compare aluminum to steel pound for pound. We design our product to be fit for its intended use. After nine years and thousands of bumpers for trucks, vans, and SUVs, we have not had any failures. We have replaced one bumper from a head on collision in Mexico in which the vehicle outfitted with our all-aluminum bumper was not damaged.

There are many quality steel bumpers on the market. If your application is to support the vehicle on rocks (i.e. severe rock crawling), steel may be the better choice.

We appreciate the chance to state our case and hope that your questions have been answered. As for the pictures requested, we will post pictures of the Tundra front bumper next week, as we currently do not have one available, and are out of the office for the weekend.

Happy Father’s Day to all!

[prjeff46]

on the rear bumper it would be nice to have some attachments for a hi-lift..perhaps behind the rear tire like the 4x4 labs bumper.

Also, it could always be added later on, but a license plate holder that is non-obstructed would be cool.

Recovery points on the rear would be good too. Definitely a nice option though for the rear to prevent sagging from steel and give a little more departure while still being able to carry a spare and other things.

[MCL_68]

I like the idea of a aluminum bumper for the 4th gen 4runners...

I would like to add my design input....Even though i already have an aftermarket bumper.



1.Hoops...either just a center hoop or full hoops like the SW and ARB bumpers.(Customers choice)

2.Have the recovery points...D shackle mounts welded up a bit higher...basing from the FJ model.

3.Splash guards to cover the lower exposed areas of the wheel well area... to hide the windshield washer bottle and prevent rocks and mud from flinging forward.(Should be incorporated in the design)

4.Optional antenna mounts or pre-drilled holes in the corner wings of the bumper.(Customers choice)

5.Have the lower fog light openings/mount be able to accommodate any brand 4" light or the OEM fog lights.

[prjeff46]

4.Optional antenna mounts or pre-drilled holes in the corner wings of the bumper.(Customers choice)

I was kind of curious about this..can you mount cb antenna's to these bumpers or will you need to find somewhere else to do it for a ground plane?

[Ryanmb21]

I'm interested in this project very much, I had no interest in hanging a heavy steel bumper off the front of my 4runner. I like the way the FJ bumper looks, maybe blend the way that looks with sort of the shrockworks look and you'd be good to go.

[bulldog]

I second Mark's points.

The splash guards by the fenders also prevent water from getting into the intake during water crossings. A skid plate to protect the radiator is a must as well. We now have had a few trucks disabled because they didn't have these features.

Also if it is designed to be a winch bumper the frame mounting system needs to be able to mount to the side of the frame rail, the OEM tabs will not stand up to winching over time. Also make sure to have a good winch control box mounting system. The Warn 9.5XP is a good winch to build a template for.

A mounting system that allows for body lifts later will be great. Also check bolts for winching will be great.

[pdrunner]

Radiator skid and and upgraded frame mounts would be awesome.

I would like to see slightly less corner coverage as compared to the Taco or FJ bumpers for my personal turning radius. I'd also like to see multiple hoop options. I personally want just a radiator hoop.

[Teotwaki]

I was kind of curious about this..can you mount cb antenna's to these bumpers or will you need to find somewhere else to do it for a ground plane?


Aluminum is just another metal so it will offer good grounding and be an adequate antenna mounting location. If you want great CB performance then a good antenna mounted up on the roof is best.

[Photog]

To the guys at Aluminess - That was a great response with excellent info.

Thanks. :wavey:

One more design idea - at a point outboard of the shackle mounts (tow points), design an opening or lip, where a Hi-Lift can be used to lift a corner of the vehicle.

I definitely like the looks of the Tacoma bumper better than the FJ bumper (for our 4Runners). I agree with others, the wings on the Tacoma bumpers are too wide for the 4Runner, unless there were plans for side bars to connect to the rock sliders (not what I want to do).

Visually, I like the hoop to lean forward a little, not backwards.

photo from Aluminess website (http://www.aluminess.com/trucks.htm):
http://www.aluminess.com/img/toyota-truck-bumper-15_lg.jpg

[afromullet]

I'm interested as well. Hella or PIAA lights; would be great if it worked well with stock fogs as well.

[Teotwaki]

there are aspects of the ARB design that I like
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/cruiserconnection_2107_731689
The raised areas for the fog lamps give some interesting shaping to the flat plane of the bumper. The other brands are all flats and angles and almost too plain when installed on a 4Runner that has curves and very little in the way of flat planes

[Aluminess]

Maybe Aluminess could post an image of the backside of the Tundra bumper, with a short explanation of what gives it similar strength to a steel bumper, and still weigh much less than the steel bumper.


We posted the explanation in a previous post, but we wanted to follow up and deliver the Tundra pictures as promised! Hope these are helpful

[Teotwaki]

We posted the explanation in a previous post, but we wanted to follow up and deliver the Tundra pictures as promised! Hope these are helpful

It woould be more helpful to see how the FJ Bumper mounts up as it the FJ uses almost exactly the same frame as the 4Runner.

[TinTioT]

Very interesting.
Looking forward to quick delivery.

[MysticZ]

Has the design been set?

Any updates on build progress?

Thanks

[Aluminess]

Has the design been set?

Any updates on build progress?

Thanks


Thanks everyone for your input! We have yet to see a vehicle, but recently we have been in contact with a 4Runner owner who has a body lift, which will help us to design the most universal bumper possible. Once we see how all the comments fit with the actual vehicle, we can begin the in-depth design process. We are a small shop, so unfortunately we can only take on a couple of custom projects at a time. We currently have two overland vehicles in shop that we are finishing up custom design jobs on, so the 4Runner is next on the list! We are excited to begin this project and looking forward to getting a vehicle in shop!

Thanks again for all the support,

Aluminess Products

[MysticZ]

Thanks everyone for your input! We have yet to see a vehicle, but recently we have been in contact with a 4Runner owner who has a body lift, which will help us to design the most universal bumper possible. Once we see how all the comments fit with the actual vehicle, we can begin the in-depth design process. We are a small shop, so unfortunately we can only take on a couple of custom projects at a time. We currently have two overland vehicles in shop that we are finishing up custom design jobs on, so the 4Runner is next on the list! We are excited to begin this project and looking forward to getting a vehicle in shop!

Thanks again for all the support,

Aluminess Products

Sounds great, keep us updated.

Plus I already ordered my winch for my bumper.:rockon:

[Tdub06]

Maintain a factory appearance as much as possible. Put the fog lights in the same location relative to the headlights and retain the styling cues/continue the lines of the original design.

I want to have to look twice to realize it's an aftermarket bumper.

[Ryanmb21]

Maintain a factory appearance as much as possible. Put the fog lights in the same location relative to the headlights and retain the styling cues/continue the lines of the original design.

I want to have to look twice to realize it's an aftermarket bumper.

I agree here, but I would want hoops.

[dbiii]

one more thing. I recently saw a Road Armor bumper and it would be nice if the aluminess bumper could have some curves in it to match the curves of the 4Runner.

http://www.roadarmor.com/site/toyota/05-tacoma.php

[Aluminess]

Hello everyone, here's an update as to what has been going on:

We still have yet to see a vehicle. We are looking to design a bumper for the 4th generation Toyota 4Runner, so if anyone has one that we can take a look at, please stop by our shop! We are located at:
9402 Wheatlands Ct. #A
Santee, CA 92071

Also, when starting a design project, we wait for an order (deposit) from a customer so we know that the project has both current and future purpose. We have received a lot of interest, but until we receive a confirmed order, orders for other custom projects take priority in the production schedule.

We appreciate all the interest and are excited about this project...we are just waiting for that first order to get us started. If you are interested in ordering, or have a vehicle that you would be willing for us to take a look at, please give us a call (619-449-9930).

Thanks for your patience, we are very excited for this project and are really hoping to see a vehicle soon!

Aluminess

[Aluminess]

A new update...we heard from BlairB and he will bringing in his vehicle on 8/12/10. We also have a customer who said he will give us a deposit once he sees the initial design...so it looks like we are good to go! We will post again once we have the vehicle in the shop. Thanks!

[Litupagain]

So I saw in 4wd toyota owner the artical. Are we the "number of potential customers contact us"?

Also thanks BlairB!

[Aluminess]

So I saw in 4wd toyota owner the artical. Are we the "number of potential customers contact us"?

Yes, a number of potential customers are from this forum, but we have also received many calls from customers inquiring about a bumper for the 4Runner. We have received interest for almost every generation 4Runner, but 4th generation is first on our list! Thanks for reading the article!

Aluminess

[Ryanmb21]

Any updates? I assume the weight would be similar to that of the FJ's bumper 43lbs? http://www.aluminess.com/fj-cruisers.htm

[dirtfinder]

any update. i would be interested in a modified version of the Taco bumper.

[MysticZ]

Were the measurements taken?

[Aluminess]

any update. i would be interested in a modified version of the Taco bumper.

Were the measurements taken?

We met with Blair on Friday, August 13th. There wasn’t time available to take off the stock bumper for a complete set of measurements, but after looking at his vehicle and talking to Blair, we now have a much better idea of how our bumper will mount to the 4runner frame. We are ready to move forward, creating a bumper following the same design characteristics as the bumper we currently offer for the FJ Cruiser and Toyota Tacoma. We plan to offer three different versions of the bumper…with brush guards - $1,250; with bull bar- $1,225; and without brush guards/bull bar - $1,200.

As far as a timeline for the project, we will need two days to design the bumper, two weeks to have it cut out and then put it together, and one week to have it powder-coated and installed for pictures. This will require 3 different days for use of the customer vehicle…we are checking with Blair to see if he is willing to help us on this project as he is currently located outside of San Diego, but visits fairly regularly.

[MysticZ]

Any updates? are the designs completed?

[Aluminess]

As far as a timeline for the project, we will need two days to design the bumper, two weeks to have it cut out and then put it together, and one week to have it powder-coated and installed for pictures. This will require 3 different days for use of the customer vehicle…we are checking with Blair to see if he is willing to help us on this project as he is currently located outside of San Diego, but visits fairly regularly.

I am so sorry that we don't have anything new to report...it looks like we are still in need of a local owner who can work with us on the 3 day requirements set out above. Please put the word out...

[MysticZ]

I am so sorry that we don't have anything new to report...it looks like we are still in need of a local owner who can work with us on the 3 day requirements set out above. Please put the word out...

You need a Runner for 3 days?

I might be able to drive up to S Cal for a weekend so you can do it on my Runner.

[Aluminess]

As far as a timeline for the project, we will need two days to design the bumper, two weeks to have it cut out and then put it together, and one week to have it powder-coated and installed for pictures. This will require 3 different days for use of the customer vehicle…we are checking with Blair to see if he is willing to help us on this project as he is currently located outside of San Diego, but visits fairly regularly.

What makes this a little harder is that we need it for 3 different days...several weeks apart. Let me know if this works for you...

[aws24689]

I am really excited to see how this bumper turns out!!

[tenguns]

I'm good and close to. 2009 Limited 4runner. Looks like you've made some decisions but I'm available on three diff dates - no prob. PM me or ck your email.

[Aluminess]

I'm good and close to. 2009 Limited 4runner. Looks like you've made some decisions but I'm available on three diff dates - no prob. PM me or ck your email.

We confirmed via phone conversation today that Tenguns will be able to let us use his vehicle for the three different measurement/fitment sessions. We will be getting together with him later in September when he is available to bring it to our shop in San Diego. Thanks for your patience!