VSC OFF SWITCH on 08 4R

[POCHO8]

I saw someone mentioned on another thread that a VSC off SWITCH might be a new feature on the 08 4R, does anyone know if it is available on the 08 4R?... I got into their site and it wasn't mentioned.

Thanks,

Phillip

[bulldog]

I need to update the new features fro the 08 models still. But anyway, yes the 08 will have a VSC off switch, I'm not sure if it can be retrofitted to older models.

You can alwasy just have a switch to disconnect one of the wheel sensors to disable VSC, etc :D Not realy recommended as it will diable ABS as well.

Anyhow I attached the way the new VSC off switch owrks.

[POCHO8]

Thanks..... Lets us know once you can verify it can be retrofitted into earlier models...

[Teotwaki]

I'll bet that you need a new ECU as the s/w code will have to be updated.

[csteege]

I need to update the new features fro the 08 models still. But anyway, yes the 08 will have a VSC off switch, I'm not sure if it can be retrofitted to older models.

You can alwasy just have a switch to disconnect one of the wheel sensors to disable VSC, etc :D Not realy recommended as it will diable ABS as well.

Anyhow I attached the way the new VSC off switch owrks.

First post on this Forum, so far I love it overwhelmed with excellent info. I do have a quick question. I just ordered my 08 V8 Limited so it should have the VSC off, will this also shut down the ABS? I hope so, I prefer no ABS on snow and in certain off-road situations. Thanks

[bulldog]

First post on this Forum, so far I love it overwhelmed with excellent info. I do have a quick question. I just ordered my 08 V8 Limited so it should have the VSC off, will this also shut down the ABS? I hope so, I prefer no ABS on snow and in certain off-road situations. Thanks

The ABS should still work with the VSC off button activated. See the attachment above, no indication of the button disabling ABS. AT lower speeds ABS doesn't work anyway.

[csteege]

The ABS should still work with the VSC off button activated. See the attachment above, no indication of the button disabling ABS. AT lower speeds ABS doesn't work anyway.

Below 5mph it doesn't work, I want to shut it off from any speed any ideas? Thanks

[Fallz]

I would kill to have a VSC off switch. God I hate that feature most of the time. It has it's purpose but really prefer to be able to disable it .

[csteege]

I'm still trying to find a way to kill the ABS, it's still works with VSC off switch...

[Fallz]

I've had 4x4's since I was 16 y/o. Way to many to count , never needed ABS,VSC , beeping lights showing and telling me was loosing traction.........

[bulldog]

I have yet to look at the 08 wiring diagrams and the older models to see if it is possible to install a VSC off switch that will play nice with the ECU on the older models (I doubt without an ECU swap out).

Either way somebody with the time and understanding of wiring diagrams and ECU can go through this thread and see if it can be used on a 4RUnner (should be possible since an FJC is pretty close).
http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/4x4-off-road-tech/8018-install-vsc-cancel-switch.html

[Vegas Runner]

Under what conditions is it an advantage not to have the VSC?

[bulldog]

Under what conditions is it an advantage not to have the VSC?

Very slippery conditions when you want to get going from a standing start. Folks in ice/snow constantly complain about it as VSC sometimes put them in danger, etc. In those conditions you dont want to lock the center diff as it can cause sideways slide, but you do want the ability to have wheelspin. SImilar for very fast driving in the desert, where loking the center diff will cause you to push the rear ou easily. But you want to slide under natirl power with the limited slip diff in the center.

AN further for folsk who want to make impressive donuts to impress the chicks :lol:

[AlexJet]

Very slippery conditions when you want to get going from a standing start. Folks in ice/snow constantly complain about it as VSC sometimes put them in danger, etc. In those conditions you dont want to lock the center diff as it can cause sideways slide, but you do want the ability to have wheelspin. SImilar for very fast driving in the desert, where loking the center diff will cause you to push the rear ou easily. But you want to slide under natirl power with the limited slip diff in the center.

AN further for folsk who want to make impressive donuts to impress the chicks :lol:

First statement is what I complained several times on the forums and to Toyota. It put me twice in a situation between accident (very bad) and driving away. Both times I was lucky and experienced enough to get myself out without anything bad happening.

[Fallz]

Alex & bulldog are totally right on .

It can be a HUGE danger IMO if pulling out into traffic when its snowing or ice. I almost got hit a few times , wife refuses to drive the 4R in the snow storms. Especially tough when trying to cross a medium thats full of snow when your waiting for cross traffic. I would recommend going out to play in a snow storm and get the feel of how thing work and handle. A nice big snow covered empty parking lot would be a good test area.

If I'm just crusing on the hiway in snow or on some back rural roads it's ok , but then again driving 4x4's all my life and driving smart I never needed this stuff.

[bulldog]

A temp solution is to lock the center diff for that brief period of time, you can lock and unlock on the fly. But it is a PITA though, but would be good for those brief crossings and pulling out into traffic.

I found that the Michelin cross terrians works wonders in snow and ice on road. SO tires does help a lot, but still doesn't address the problem. On the GX we have the michelin tires and the 2nd gear start button, which have worked really well up in Tahoe with standing starts.

Either way I suggest folks check out the thread I posted and see if a solution for 03-07 trucks can be buidl from it.

[Yabedude]

Under what conditions is it an advantage not to have the VSC?

I can think of one.

[bulldog]

I can think of one.

The center diff should have been locked in that case :D

[Crozhawk]

that's a pretty nice little mudpie:doh:

[Yabedude]

The center diff should have been locked in that case :D

Trust me, it was. Soup and TRAC doesn't go hand in hand. VSC was useless with no traction and TRAC was killing any attempts at gaining traction. Catch-22. I now know that keeping RPM's over 3K will effectively kill TRAC. I also plan on doing the AndyMod (was that your's?)

[bulldog]

Trust me, it was. Soup and TRAC doesn't go hand in hand. VSC was useless with no traction and TRAC was killing any attempts at gaining traction. Catch-22. I now know that keeping RPM's over 3K will effectively kill TRAC. I also plan on doing the AndyMod (was that your's?)

When you lock the center diff, VSC and TRAC is disabled. Only ATRAC stays active, adn as you figured out a bit of skinny pedal will disable ATRAC. I also found 4Hi works better for me in mud and sand, as the ATRAC is less agressive and I can get better wheel speed. All of this has been covered in the ATRAC thread though.

Biggest thing in mud is tires and ground clearance though. Without the right tires even lockers are useless.

[Chuck]

When you lock the center diff, VSC and TRAC is disabled. Only ATRAC stays active

What is the difference between TRAC & ATRAC?

[bulldog]

What is the difference between TRAC & ATRAC?

TRAC cuts power and applieas brakes to spinning wheel when it sense wheelspin, ATRAC only limits wheelspin by applying brales (no throttling back).

TRAC and VSC are disabled with the center diff locked, and ATRAC gets more agressive in 4Lo (which is good thing in rocks, but can be bad in mud and sand)

[Fallz]

Not to sound stupid , but is there a place to email Toyota and complain about this and explain the situation and see if they can retro fit it to earlier models and reflash the comp. ?

If the comp. does not need a reflash , it should be as simple as splicing a wire and running it through a VSC labeled switch.

I personally would like to be able to deactivate it if I need to , otherwise just driving / crusing in snow ice covered roads I would mind it activated .

I would not want to give up ABS though.

Also be a bonus to turn Atrac on/off too , but I'll settle with the VSC :-)

[bulldog]

Not to sound stupid , but is there a place to email Toyota and complain about this and explain the situation and see if they can retro fit it to earlier models and reflash the comp. ?

If the comp. does not need a reflash , it should be as simple as splicing a wire and running it through a VSC labeled switch.

I personally would like to be able to deactivate it if I need to , otherwise just driving / crusing in snow ice covered roads I would mind it activated .

I would not want to give up ABS though.

Also be a bonus to turn Atrac on/off too , but I'll settle with the VSC :-)

http://www.toyota.com/about/contact_us/index.html

Good luck.

[Duc Hunter]

A lot of it too is driver error or lack of knowledge of the vehicle. I took mine out when I got it and played in mud, mud that I knew was not so deep as to get me stuck, but that I could learn from. I found that Hi 4 with the diff locked works great in mud. Low 4 with the diff locked though is best for rocks.

Point is, take your rig out to an area you know is safe, and play. See how it responds to mud and wheel spin. We all know we need wheel speed and spinning in mud, so remember what mode your car needs to be in for what situation. I actually created a little cheat sheet. I put the 4wd system mode required and pointers. I have even updated the notes based on my own experience and reading here. It is always nice to have on the trail. Just a thought. My "environments" are listed below.

Snow/Ice
Rocks
Sand/Desert Roads
Mud

[MAC4Runner]

My "environments" are listed below.

Snow/Ice
Rocks
Sand/Desert Roads
Mud

Post-up your cheat sheet :beer:

[joshua]

I'm a bit confused. What vehicles have TRAC and ATRAC?

[backroad]

Though this is an old thread, keeping the idea of a VSC kill switch alive might be worth posting a comment.

I usually drive with the center diff unlocked when I can get away with it, especially on twisty trails, but then I have to remember to lock the center diff to go over deep sand patches on an otherwise rocky road where I'd rather not have the center diff locked, just to keep the VSC from reducing the throttle and killing my momentum. And of course if someone else is driving....

As long as I remember or know that it's coming I guess that's okay but it is a PITA; but I was driving on a trail, NE Wyoming I think, where the surface looked dry but was only a crust on a slippery pile of goo. The VSC started reducing the throttle, killing my momentum...realizing I was now driving in slippery mud of unknown depth that was the last thing I wanted. I had to lock the center diff the rest of that area just to be sure it didn't happen again.

Since the center diff switch also cuts the VSC I also wonder if that is a separate wire that could be separated out to it's own switch (or it may be controlled through the computer).

Ron

[shabaka]

maybe i'm just not understanding the real problem/issue here
maybe the function of the electronics just doesn't bother me
(i've never been off-road before this truck, so all of it's gizmos are normal to me)

it seems like most of the complaints are in association with low traction

wouldn't you want to be in traditional 4WD in these situations anyway
tying the front and rear axles together at the same speed/torque

if thats the case why would you even bother to stay in AWD with the
power shifting fore and aft all the time
with the exlusion of snow and ice (...or maybe speeds above 45mph)
AWD is the less than ideal choice

use the 4WD, lock the Center Diff, killing the VCS/TRAC
and as mentioned, get the revs above 1800rpm or so and the ATRAC shuts
it's self off ...no need for a button

excessive wheel spin in AWD would not automaticly net better traction or
maintaning momentum because the power will oscillate back and forth

excessive wheel spin in RWD would more then likely dig you two nice little
ruts to park your back tires in

i'm speaking of low traction situations
deep snow/sand/mud, steep hills, rocks, uneven terrain

it would be fun if nothing else
for burn-outs and such :)

[backroad]

maybe i'm just not understanding the real problem/issue here
maybe the function of the electronics just doesn't bother me
(i've never been off-road before this truck, so all of it's gizmos are normal to me)

it seems like most of the complaints are in association with low traction

wouldn't you want to be in traditional 4WD in these situations anyway
tying the front and rear axles together at the same speed/torque

if thats the case why would you even bother to stay in AWD with the
power shifting fore and aft all the time
with the exlusion of snow and ice (...or maybe speeds above 45mph)
AWD is the less than ideal choice

use the 4WD, lock the Center Diff, killing the VCS/TRAC
and as mentioned, get the revs above 1800rpm or so and the ATRAC shuts
it's self off ...no need for a button

excessive wheel spin in AWD would not automaticly net better traction or
maintaning momentum because the power will oscillate back and forth

excessive wheel spin in RWD would more then likely dig you two nice little
ruts to park your back tires in

i'm speaking of low traction situations
deep snow/sand/mud, steep hills, rocks, uneven terrain

it would be fun if nothing else
for burn-outs and such :)


The VSC system will reduce wheel spin as long as there is some slippage. On sand or mud there is always some slippage so it doesn't know when to stop and that isn't a good thing; might be nice on ice or hardpacked snow.

Your description of the power shifting fore and aft all the time as if the front wheels are going to spin, then the back is not what happens; if the system were that bad you would have a good point; the Torsen allows enough of a disconnect to prevent binding while still driving both axles.

Making a sharp low speed turn in sand with the diff locked will cause the inside rear wheel to dig itself in as it tries to keep up with the faster turning front wheels; unlocking the diff reduces this considerably--nice feature to have.

Driving on rock I prefer the center diff unlocked so I can make sharp turns without binding. Having a center diff that unlocks is a great feature, especially for switchbacks on rock where a locked center diff causes driveline binding and actually reduces traction by requiring wheels to slip in the turn, where the unlocked center diff alleviates that tension.

So driving down a slow rocky bumpy road with sharp turns in low range I have no need for a locked center diff (happy I have a choice) and don't need VSC. I come to a sandy wash of deep dry sand or a silty stream bed. Without VSC wanting to cut the throttle back I would just drive through, no problem. With VSC I have to lock the center diff to turn off VSC, on the other side I'll unlock the diff again cause I don't need it or even want it, especially when I come to that tight turn up ahead.

Not a big deal, but I would just as soon be able to shut VSC off independently, and it's nice that someone at Toyota agreed and put the button in the new model, and it would be great to put one on mine :-)

Ron

[POCHO8]

Agreed, we just need someone to post the electrical circuit of the 2008 model so we can mimic the connection and install our switches... I want it although I will not use it much.

I know some people have done it but I either read the thread half way or some information was missing from the thread . I do not know.

Phil

[shabaka]

yeah that makes sense

with the trails around here you either need to be in 4WD or not
not much in-between :)

in the winter i run it in AWD most all season with the snow and ice

thanks for the expounded explination
i can see the issue :)