Front diff bracket broken

[Vegas Runner]

It turns out my oil pan was damaged also. It has a crack in it from being struck by the differential. So it is being replaced also. All of this resulting from a bracket I did not know was broken. I would reccomend everyone look at their differential support brackets. I am not the first person to break one of these brackets then drive on it for some time not knowing it was broken resulting in additional damage.

[bulldog]

That blows, what skids are you running? It probably had issues before BBB and John Bull probably just pushed it over the edge.

Maybe it is just something in the water in Vegas?? :P

On a serious note, it is a very good point beign raised about vehicle inspection from time to time. After and before trips and during an oil change would be good times.

[Vegas Runner]

My skids pretty much protect the bracket. It is possible the damage was done before I had the skids. Or it is possible the bracket breaks from hard duty in general and is not a result of a direct impact.

[expat]

Looks like another product for the aftermarket! I would think the design could be improved too, as well as the material.

[bulldog]

Looks like another product for the aftermarket! I would think the design could be improved too, as well as the material.

Good point!! Something of better material would do a much better job. Not sure why we have seen 2 failures now.

[expat]

I've got my own ideas but what would people suggest is the best way to inspect. I know that those who have broken these darn things were totally unaware of any damage prior and as Ed mentioned his even had some rust.

I wonder if my suspension woes are due to this...eeeekkk...I better get up early in am and check it out!

[Mikestang]

After reading about Robert's breaking I check mine out with a good light at each oil change, looking for hair line cracks or fatigue. I also "tap" things on the with a rubber mallet and listen for rattles, stuff like that.

[my034runner]

Looks like another product for the aftermarket! I would think the design could be improved too, as well as the material.


Good point!! Something of better material would do a much better job. Not sure why we have seen 2 failures now.


It definitely needs to better designed, some sort of heavier dom maybe, would be good.
The design of the front diff support bracket #1 is much stronger, even though it's the same material.

Can we move the discussion of this bracket to a new thread? We definitely need to visit this topic, separately from this topic.:devil:

[my034runner]

Thanks for moving it Andries.....:hidebc:

[Vegas Runner]

I've got my own ideas but what would people suggest is the best way to inspect. I know that those who have broken these darn things were totally unaware of any damage prior and as Ed mentioned his even had some rust.

I wonder if my suspension woes are due to this...eeeekkk...I better get up early in am and check it out!

Mine was clearly broken in two pieces. A visual inspection would have done it.

[06SSTaco]

Mine was clearly broken in two pieces. A visual inspection would have done it.


Ed, I also noticed as you did, when looking at the support it just looks weak & chincy. I would of thought that such a critical component would have beeen better built.

I'm going to inspect mine this weekend and regularly thereafter and especially after any kind of hard impact to the front suspension that results in suspention bottoming hard to the bumpstops it seeems to me that would be the most likely cause of breaking the support. What do you think?

[Vegas Runner]

I'm going to inspect mine this weekend and regularly thereafter and especially after any kind of hard impact to the front suspension that results in suspention bottoming hard to the bumpstops it seeems to me that would be the most likely cause of breaking the support. What do you think?

Hard to say exactly what caused it. It does seem to be in an unlikely position for a direct impact to the bracket (e.g. rock) to cause the break. As you say it could be just a hard jolt to the suspension. Someone with more insight than me would have to study it.

[bulldog]

Maybe it might be worthwhile to look into having something made aftermarket to replace the stock support. SHouldn't be super expensive to have a trussed support made form steel. The current support is a cast metal, which seem to be very suseptable to hairline fracturesa dn eventually failing completely.

[97kurt]

Maybe it might be worthwhile to look into having something made aftermarket to replace the stock support. SHouldn't be super expensive to have a trussed support made form steel. The current support is a cast metal, which seem to be very suseptable to hairline fracturesa dn eventually failing completely.

Can anyone post of pic of the bracket or the broken bracket? Also in Roberts and Ed's cases, was it the passenger side bracket?

[Mikestang]

One of these days I'll get motivated enough to have my rear control arm brackets welded on. I had planned on having Demello do it. I'll mention this to him at that time and see if they can fab something up.

[Vegas Runner]

Can anyone post of pic of the bracket or the broken bracket? Also in Roberts and Ed's cases, was it the passenger side bracket?


It was the passenger side bracket. I will try to post up the page in the repair manual showing the bracket on Monday. Its on page 29-6 of the 2003 manual if anybody gets a chance to post it before then.

[my034runner]

Front Differential support bracket #2 (passenger side).

I posted pics when I broke mine, I'll check and see if I still have them on my WebShots page.:poke:

[my034runner]

Here's a couple after they were off.

http://inlinethumb55.webshots.com/18614/2077743640086613829S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2077743640086613829QyOlIQ)

http://rides.webshots.com/album/556580709zgzvtT

:shocked: :shout:

[Cruiserhead]

it basically looks like a long, unsupported lever arm. the leverage snapping off at the mounting point. am i looking at that correctly?

is there clearance to make the arm thicker or add a support brace/bolt/additional mounting point in the middle of the arm?

[bulldog]

it basically looks like a long, unsupported lever arm. the leverage snapping off at the mounting point. am i looking at that correctly?

is there clearance to make the arm thicker or add a support brace/bolt/additional mounting point in the middle of the arm?

If the bushing on the diff side can be pressed out, it might be possible to just have a pice of steel machined to repalce the existing arm. The same thickness solid steel will be much stronger.

Great oppertunity for an aftermarket part. I suspect it is only a matter fo time before the FJC crowd will start breaking these (given that the 2 that has broken are form a 03 and 04 that sees regular action).

[hopper]

I sent a PM over ttora to a vender that should be able to make a replacment. Hopefully he will read this post and POST UP and let you guys know. :D

[my034runner]

it basically looks like a long, unsupported lever arm. the leverage snapping off at the mounting point. am i looking at that correctly?

is there clearance to make the arm thicker or add a support brace/bolt/additional mounting point in the middle of the arm?

If the bushing on the diff side can be pressed out, it might be possible to just have a piece of steel machined to replace the existing arm. The same thickness solid steel will be much stronger.

Great opportunity for an aftermarket part. I suspect it is only a matter of time before the FJC crowd will start breaking these (given that the 2 that has broken are form a 03 and 04 that sees regular action).


Yeah, the break is right at the mount to the diff. I just went back and took a picture of Ed's bracket, and his and mine look to have broke at the same spot.:eek:
Brett was thinking of a way to support the bracket, and connect to the diff.

That would give extra support as the arm flexes one way or another.
I also took a picture of the support bracket #1. I'll load them up when I get home. You'll see how, even with the same material, that it is designed much stronger. Maybe because it's actually attached to the pumpkin, whereas #2 is attached to the diff (axle) housing.
I think that a stronger metal would work, but there is still the issue of mounting points available between the frame and diff housing. That's where the weakness is coming from.
I told Brett to chime in and explain his ideas, but he's is working on Ed's truck.:shout:

[97kurt]

Thats the same style mount that mine is supported with. But if memory serves me right it is constructed a little differently. Robert can you ask Brett if the new tacoma uses the same mount?

[Vegas Runner]

Well I got the car back. Its all fixed up!

Its great to have someone like Brett working on it.

One thing I noticed. For some time I have been having a pull to the left when I accelerate. I had chalked it up to my alignment problems (I have had a hard time getting the truck aligned). But...The pull on acceleration is now gone. I suspect it was pulling on acceleration because the bracket was broken. So if you start to notice a pull to the left when accelerating...check your bracket!

[bulldog]

Well I got the car back. Its all fixed up!

Its great to have someone like Brett working on it.

One thing I noticed. For some time I have been having a pull to the left when I accelerate. I had chalked it up to my alignment problems (I have had a hard time getting the truck aligned). But...The pull on acceleration is now gone. I suspect it was pulling on acceleration because the bracket was broken. So if you start to notice a pull to the left when accelerating...check your bracket!

That's a good tip.

I'm up for a stronger aftermarket unit as I think consistent rock play will eventually wear it down. I would prefer a solid piece to replace the stock unit that can just be bolted in. Gotta pay to play.

[Vegas Runner]

Gotta pay to play.

Well I must be having fun because I definately paid!

[bulldog]

Well I must be having fun because I definately paid!

:jester: I don't even want to know how much.

[my034runner]

That's the same style mount that mine is supported with. But if memory serves me right it is constructed a little differently. Robert can you ask Brett if the new Tacoma uses the same mount?


It does.:cool1:

[expat]

One thing I noticed. For some time I have been having a pull to the left when I accelerate. I had chalked it up to my alignment problems (I have had a hard time getting the truck aligned). But...The pull on acceleration is now gone. I suspect it was pulling on acceleration because the bracket was broken. So if you start to notice a pull to the left when accelerating...check your bracket!

This is exactly what my truck is doing. Damn rain outside can't get to under it :pissed2: I'll be so happy if the bracket is broken - easy fix!

[my034runner]

This is exactly what my truck is doing. Damn rain outside can't get to under it :pissed2: I'll be so happy if the bracket is broken - easy fix!



Be careful what you wish for. :guns: Both Ed and I had other damage caused by the support bracket breaking. I'll be happy if you don't have any extra damage under there.:wavey:

[Dealmaker]

I just took a peak underneath...it would appear there are two brackets. The one on the drivers side is under a skidplate and difficult to assess whilst the plate is on. But the one under the passenger side is prety easy to assess.

[my034runner]

Pics of Ed's new bracket:

Diff support bracket #2
http://inlinethumb60.webshots.com/19899/2865874240086613829S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2865874240086613829xhNaSC)


Diff support bracket #1

http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/19110/2692166120086613829S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2692166120086613829wDQUgN)



http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2692166120086613829wDQUgN




:bigok: :iagree

[bulldog]

Thx for the pics. Tehy show why only the one side is more prone to breaking, look at the height of the braket on the passenger side compared to the driver side..

I wonder if they upgraded it in later years??

[expat]

Be careful what you wish for. :guns: Both Ed and I had other damage caused by the support bracket breaking. I'll be happy if you don't have any extra damage under there.:wavey:

I'd rather know what I'm dealing with (and get it fixed) than drive around with a problem I can't isolate.

Damn rain! Hope it stops so I can get outside and look at this.

[my034runner]

I'd rather know what I'm dealing with (and get it fixed) than drive around with a problem I can't isolate.

Damn rain! Hope it stops so I can get outside and look at this.



Believe me, I understand!! If you do have a broken bracket, I hope that it's just limited to that. :iagree
Rather than any additional damage like Ed and I incurred.:shocked:

That's all.:bigok:

It's still raining there?? Crap, that means that we'll be getting it soon!!!:shocked: We had a hell of a storm roll through here last night, even had Tornado warnings in Clark County!!:shocked:

[expat]

Mine's not broken. Damn! :( :bs:

[expat]

Does diff support brackey #2 sit on a level plane or is it slightly angled upwards towards the rear? Looking at the front of mine, the front mounting point seems to be angled in the bushing for a slighly upwards angle (maybe 2degrees) with the trailing edge (the rear) being slighly higher in the plane.

Trying to explain it another way, does the bracket sit flat in the front bushing or is it slightly angled?

[Vegas Runner]

It is really tough for me to say. I am not sure I could see a two degree angle anyway.

[Photog]

Those two brackets look like they are designed to keep the axle housing from rotating, under a load. There must be something else actually holding the axle up. Those two bushings on the cross member don't look strong enough to hold up the axle housing, hanging on the long lever arms.

[bulldog]

There is also a rear bracket that mounts to the housing where the driveshaft enters the diff. Only those 3 mountings prevent rotation and hold the diff in place.

[Photog]

I'm going to have to look at the repair manual and see how this all hooks up. It sounds like there is too much load and torque for the existing system. Maybe one extra support to hold up the weight, would releive most of the load that is breaking the other "torque/locating" bar.

[bulldog]

I'm going to have to look at the repair manual and see how this all hooks up. It sounds like there is too much load and torque for the existing system. Maybe one extra support to hold up the weight, would releive most of the load that is breaking the other "torque/locating" bar.

The mounting system has been used on many IFS trucks over the years, so I would think it is pretty solid. The bracket itself should possibly be made out of something more solid though.

[Photog]

The three support pieces create something of a platform for the axle housing. Under the tail of the differential, is the 3rd support, and it holds much of the weight of the differential.

If we jump our rigs, the differential/axle housing will try to move straight down. There will be a tremendous amount of force put on the pasenger side support. The leverage (torque) forces will be focused at the point where the photos show it breaking, because the casting is bolted to the axle in two places, and will not rotate.

We could do a couple things:
1) Add a reinforcing truss to the supports, that bolts into the existing locations.
2) Replace the existing supports with a taller (stronger) I-beam design.
3) Add a 4th axle support for the passenger side, taking most of the load off that support.

I'm sure the factory design will work for the majority of 4Runners; but with our trips on horrid washboards, and bouncing on sand dunes, etc., these supports see a lot more down-force than they were designed to handle.

[bulldog]

The three support pieces create something of a platform for the axle housing. Under the tail of the differential, is the 3rd support, and it holds much of the weight of the differential.

If we jump our rigs, the differential/axle housing will try to move straight down. There will be a tremendous amount of force put on the pasenger side support. The leverage (torque) forces will be focused at the point where the photos show it breaking, because the casting is bolted to the axle in two places, and will not rotate.

We could do a couple things:
1) Add a reinforcing truss to the supports, that bolts into the existing locations.
2) Replace the existing supports with a taller (stronger) I-beam design.
3) Add a 4th axle support for the passenger side, taking most of the load off that support.

I'm sure the factory design will work for the majority of 4Runners; but with our trips on horrid washboards, and bouncing on sand dunes, etc., these supports see a lot more down-force than they were designed to handle.


I would like to see what/if anything was doen to these supports for the FJC race trucks at Baja. They will see way more of the stresses you describe than our trucks will ever experience.

[Photog]

I agree about the FJRacer. They will definitely give it more of a beating than we ever will. How can we find out what they did on this part of their rig?

Judging by Ed's (Vegas Runner) avitar, he pounds his 4Runner more than most 4Runner owners do. It seems like some of your videos show the same activity. We may just have to give the system a little more support.

[bulldog]

I agree about the FJRacer. They will definitely give it more of a beating than we ever will. How can we find out what they did on this part of their rig?

Judging by Ed's (Vegas Runner) avitar, he pounds his 4Runner more than most 4Runner owners do. It seems like some of your videos show the same activity. We may just have to give the system a little more support.

We can probably ping DOnahoe racing and ask if they did anythign special to their racer.

My truck has seen plenty of air time in the past, an activity I'm not keen to keep doing though. My brackets still look ok, or at least last I looked at them :D