Who makes gears for 4th Gens?

[K6UK]

I'm about to change over to 275s or 285s when I get my lift installed, and the next big upgrade will be lockers and probably gears while I'm at it. Who manufactures gears for our 4runners? Any brand I should choose in particular?

I am guessing 4.1 would be the best choice if I regear, I don't intend on going larger than 33s (285s)

I've heard of gears being "cryoed" (did I spell that right) is this something I need to worry about?

Thanks All,

-Mike

[Joel]

Rear gears are available, but from what I've been told there are no gears for the front yet. I think Andries in planning on sourcing from outside the country when he gets around to it.

[bulldog]

I have looked into gears sometime ago, there seems to be gears in Iceland and Oz for the PRado that should work for the 4R/Taco/FJC. Unfortunately I have not been able to find a reliable exporter yet. It is still on my todo list, but I will probably only get round to it late this year. I agree gears and lockers at the same time is the best way to go, but it is a big chunk of change at one time.

Lance has been actively looking into gears lately, but I haven't seen anything pop up.

I will post here if I see any development or when the times come round when I can chase it down again to get an importer. Unfortunately my Japanese sucks or they would have been on my list too. The Iceland guys was never responsive to English either.

[expat]

Unfortunately my Japanese sucks or they would have been on my list too.


Get the English to me and I'll get it in Japanese asap.

[bulldog]

Get the English to me and I'll get it in Japanese asap.
Thx for the offer, a friend of mine at work also offered to translate for me. Unfortunately I would like to have some discussions with gear manufacturers in Japan as to their products and distribution channels, and to be effective some phone conversations will be required. Easiest and safest route will probably be to get it imported from Oz as a kit with all the installation goodies included.

The problem is I'm not a gear guru, thus I'm not sure what might be missing and become issues. So I would prefer to deal with installers that know what they are doing, unfortunately late last year I couldn't find many interested in the US. The Oz guys either didn't come back to me or where slow and sloppy, which is a nono sign.

I will however follow up late this year again, as I don't have the time or inclination to do so now. Too many other things on my list. So if anybody else is driving this one, please let us know. I know Lance is hurting for gears with his 35s so he will probably be more motivated to get things going soon.

Back to the original poster though, a number of people have been running 32s and 33s on the 4R with no gear changes. They do report some loss of zip, but nothing to be alarmed about.

[K6UK]

That's good to know. I think I'll stick with the 32s then, and save some of my zip. The 275s look pretty nice and require less (or possibly no) cutting - so I'll go that route. I'll buy my Engel fridge and hold off on the lockers/gears until the tires wear out... maybe by then there will be a solution!

Thanks again!

-Mike
K6UK

[Joel]

Does someone need to get on a plane to Iceland!? :mecry:

[bulldog]

These guys in Oz said they have Prado gears which should work on the 4R (same drivetrain). Unfortunately the guy never returned my emails. I spoke with him a few times on the phone, they do export to the US for Chevy rear ends.

http://www.difftechnics.com.au/

We just need to make sure on the install kits and whether they will work with ARB lockers.

[Joel]

Would using an importer like Slee help?

Also, do you think that pretty much everyone will shoot for 4.56?

[Tucson T4R]

I have an outstanding gear guy here in Tucson at Western Differencial that I have worked with over the years. I'll give him a call and see if he can come up with any options.

[bulldog]

Would using an importer like Slee help?

Also, do you think that pretty much everyone will shoot for 4.56?
Last when James and I spoke to them (a year or so ago) they seeme dluke warm about it. Maybe times have changed as the FJC will use the same gears.

4.56 will be ideal in my mind. This way you can run a heavier rig (armor, cargo, yada yada), tow better and run either 33 or 35 tires. Also it will fit good with either 4 or 5 speed trannies. Ideally I want shorter gears on my 4R, especially when going up in the mountains with lots of stuff on board. Not a real problem as I normally slip back to 4th or 3rd pending on the grade. But more wieght from armor and larger tires will certainly take its toll.

[bulldog]

I have an outstanding gear guy here in Tucson at Western Differencial that I have worked with over the years. I'll give him a call and see if he can come up with any options.
That will be great to know. The rear is no prob, but the front is all new from 03 on. If he can help us out it will be great.

[Tucson T4R]

I talked with my dif guy and he is researching it for us. He already understood the design of the front dif and didn't think it would be too much of a challenge. He will call me in the next day or so when he digs up the facts and I'll post his response here. BTW, when I mentioned you were talking about 4:56 gears he said the common gear ratio most Toyota owners are going for is the 4:88. Either way, I'll let ya know what he comes up with.

[bulldog]

I talked with my dif guy and he is researching it for us. He already understood the design of the front dif and didn't think it would be too much of a challenge. He will call me in the next day or so when he digs up the facts and I'll post his response here. BTW, when I mentioned you were talking about 4:56 gears he said the common gear ratio most Toyota owners are going for is the 4:88. Either way, I'll let ya know what he comes up with.
Yeah on the older gen 4.88 was the common one, but with the new V6/V8 and auto boxes 4.56 makes a lot more sense. A lot more power and better gearbox ratios make a big difference. 4.88 will be too short unless you run min 35" tires.

It will be great if he can find a good quality solution. I will rathe rpay more for gears and only get the best quality as I don't want to open the pumpkins again.

[expat]

If there are gears already in Oz, why not speak to them? Who is them? What would you want to know? Obviously I can offer to help through myself and my family and I am going to be there in December if you want anything collected. I can prolly carry one or two sets of gears!

[Joel]

Who is them?

http://www.difftechnics.com.au/

[expat]

This in particular? Gears (http://www.difftechnics.com.au/)

Which ones?

[Joel]

I would venture to guess Hilux IFS 4.56.

[bulldog]

I would venture to guess Hilux IFS 4.56.
Yeah it is supposed to be the Hilux axle and IFS 4.56s. Unfortunately the guy never got back to me on the final pricing and detailsI asked for the Prado120 gears,which he said was the same as the Hilux.


Mark which area in Oz will you be going too?? If it is close to where Darren's shop is you can probably swing by his shop and have a chat with him. I'll see if I can get a response out of him, as I trust him more to get the right stuff for us.

[expat]

Well, at this stage, I will fly into either Sydney or Melbourne, then on to Adelaide.

Is Darren from difftechnics? If so, appears they are in Sydney.

[bulldog]

Well, at this stage, I will fly into either Sydney or Melbourne, then on to Adelaide.

Is Darren from difftechnics? If so, appears they are in Sydney.
It is Darren McCae from ats4x4

Here is their website, no idea where in Oz they are.
http://www.ats4x4.com/

[expat]

Ok, that Darren is in Geelong which is about 50miles (I think) from the Melbourne airport :(

[expat]

Can youy tell me exactly what you want - ratio, sizes etc?

I may be able to speak to some other offroad Toyota guys closer to my home.

For eaxample these landcrusier guys (http://www.tlccsa.asn.au/)

They have over 250 members and 46 x L/C PRADO's

[bulldog]

Can youy tell me exactly what you want - ratio, sizes etc?

I may be able to speak to some other offroad Toyota guys closer to my home.
Well we are looking for 4.56 gears for the Prado 120 V6, front and rear.
So ring and pinion as well as the install kits. All the other things we can probably source from a dealer.

Thx for looking. Pricing will be good to know. Also if these guys can find a shop that will ship to the US it will be great. Lastly only top quality gears end components.

I think the gears will be a bit heavy and big to bring back with you, but we never know :beer: :beer: Will buy you a big :beer: if you can.

[bulldog]

Info pulled from ARB's site for the lockers

LandCruiser 120 Series, Lexus GX, 4Runner

Front 2003 on
8" dia. RG, IFS, 53mm bearing ID 33 (1.31")
splines 30
3.91 & UP RD111
3.73 & DN RD121

Rear 2003 on
8" dia. RG, 10 bolt 33 (1.31")
splines 30
All RD23

[expat]

Ok, I'm on this. I've emailed about a dozen companies/webforums to get help. Will make calls later today.

Mark

[bulldog]

Ok, I'm on this. I've emailed about a dozen companies/webforums to get help. Will make calls later today.

Mark
Thx, will be great to get some companies lined up.

[K6UK]

Indeed this will be great!
Although, then I would have no excuse not to buy lockers and spend more $$$

-Mike

[expat]

Ok, one question I am getting again and again is why not get them made in the US. Surely there are companies that specialize in gears here. The race industry eg make all sorts of gears. With the HUGE US market, no-one makes gears?

I have not looked ino this possibility as you guys know the US market better than I.

Anyhow, hope to have some initial replies later today.

Mark

[Cruiserhead]

I remember a long time ago, during discussion on this topic, the 4cyl Taco has 4.10 in the front diff. This might work in the 4R, tho Toyota gears are notoriously expensive.

Making custom gears was discussed but I can't remember the outcome- I think a backlog of work, long wait for them...

[bulldog]

Ok, one question I am getting again and again is why not get them made in the US. Surely there are companies that specialize in gears here. The race industry eg make all sorts of gears. With the HUGE US market, no-one makes gears?

I have not looked ino this possibility as you guys know the US market better than I.

Anyhow, hope to have some initial replies later today.

Mark
About 2 years ago we asked around and phoned various companies, but there was little to no interest due to low demand. Maybe with the FJC and Taco there will be a much larger demand.

Apparently doing the design and doing the tooling to make these gears are very expensive, so volumes are a must to be able to deliver them at a reasonable price. Besides a lot fo the socalled US brands actually outsource their manufacturing to Asia (China in most cases I think).

I believe that the gears in Oz are actually imported from Japan, so the quality should be there. I still rate Japan much higher than China for quality Auto stuff.

Maybe some of the suppliers/vendors will read this thread and others all over the foums and realize the opportunity. Till then it looks like we are limited to Oz/Iceland/Japan to get these gears.

If we can find a reliable supplier in Oz we can probably arrange a group buy to make import costs a bit cheaper/orget a vendor to do it for us. We will probably just need to get one set done first to make sure everything works well. Sort of a lab rat. :D

[expat]

Just so I get this correct...

We are looking for a re-gearing "kit" that includes as much "stuff" as is necessary to make the change from 3.91 to 4.56 on a V8 fulltime 4WD for Toyota 4Runner that is comparable (same?) as the Lancruiser Prado 120 platform. The gears will be required front and rear and we have 30 spline axles with 8" diff housings with a 10 bolt pattern.

Our parts list would probably be

- Drive pinion
- Ring gear
- Spider side gear

Have I got all this info correct?

I am assuming we could get all thrust washers, seals, races, bearings, nuts etc locally - OEM

In seven hrs time I'll hit the phones following up my emails from last night. Will be around 10am Oz time when I ring, 5pm CA.

[expat]

Maybe with the FJC and Taco there will be a much larger demand.

This is what I would have thought. What are the guys doing who have recently built up the FJ's who are running 33" +. Are they just running with stock gears. I know there was a guy on the FJ forum (hmmm not so sure) who had put 35" on his Crusher and people were asking for more details (mostly fitment issues) but the guy seemed to stop posting.

Does the FJ have excatly the same gear ratio and design as the 4Runner?

[Mikestang]

Is there nothing in the transfer case that needs to be re-done when you swap gears in the front/rear diffs?

[bulldog]

This is what I would have thought. What are the guys doing who have recently built up the FJ's who are running 33" +. Are they just running with stock gears. I know there was a guy on the FJ forum (hmmm not so sure) who had put 35" on his Crusher and people were asking for more details (mostly fitment issues) but the guy seemed to stop posting.

Does the FJ have excatly the same gear ratio and design as the 4Runner?
They are still running stock gears. The AT cruiser have the exact gears of the 4R, 5spd and final. The MT has 6 gears and a 3.909 final drive vs 3.73 for the AT and 4R. The 3.909 is the smae final drive as the older V6 4R with 4 spd AT.

The thing is it will drive fine around town, but once you load it for a trip and hit some hills life will become far less pleasant. Maybe FJCs will not carry the loads we put in 4Rs. :confused1

[bulldog]

Is there nothing in the transfer case that needs to be re-done when you swap gears in the front/rear diffs?
Nope no need to mss with the transfer case. Final drive gearing is done mostly for high range driving than low speed crawling. Would love to see a 3:1 or better gearing for the transfer case, but honestly with the AT you dont really need it. Especially the 5 spd AT.

[bulldog]

Just so I get this correct...

We are looking for a re-gearing "kit" that includes as much "stuff" as is necessary to make the change from 3.91 to 4.56 on a V8 fulltime 4WD for Toyota 4Runner that is comparable (same?) as the Lancruiser Prado 120 platform. The gears will be required front and rear and we have 30 spline axles with 8" diff housings with a 10 bolt pattern.

Our parts list would probably be

- Drive pinion
- Ring gear
- Spider side gear

Have I got all this info correct?

I am assuming we could get all thrust washers, seals, races, bearings, nuts etc locally - OEM

In seven hrs time I'll hit the phones following up my emails from last night. Will be around 10am Oz time when I ring, 5pm CA.
Mark, we probably need only the ring and pinion. Most places that sells those will also have the install kit, which is the bearings, washers, etc. We should be able to get any missing small parts OEM locally.

That is why it will be important to do one set first to see.

No need for spider gears.

Besides it is the best time to install lockers as well. So I will definitely do the lockers and gears at the same time at a shop that really know what they are doing.

Thx for all the effort.

[expat]

Ok, we might have a price by tonight or tomorrow. He will ring me when he works it out but he knew what I was after.

[Joel]

:bigok: Thanks for looking into this Mark! :beer:

[expat]

Ok, I need to send some photos of the diff housing, front and rear. Anyone happen to have some good quality shots? If not I'll shoot some tomorrow and email them over. He said there are a few different housings and he wants to be sure of the right one.

He also said that he can box them up and ship no problems - has done so for other US orders. We can work this detail later depending upon price etc.

Later
Mark

[AlexJet]

If installing only rear locker and regear rear, do I need to regear front too for similar gears front+rear or just rear might work out too?

[bulldog]

Ok, I need to send some photos of the diff housing, front and rear. Anyone happen to have some good quality shots? If not I'll shoot some tomorrow and email them over. He said there are a few different housings and he wants to be sure of the right one.

He also said that he can box them up and ship no problems - has done so for other US orders. We can work this detail later depending upon price etc.

Later
Mark

Mark, see the write up and if you need the full size pics. I can send you the full size of the ones you want if needs be.
http://www.toyota120.com/html/driveline_service.html

And thx again, you da man :bow: (Only if you can make it happen :P )

[bulldog]

If installing only rear locker and regear rear, do I need to regear front too for similar gears front+rear or just rear might work out too?
You need to do both axles at the same time or else you will place too much stress on your transfer case, especially when locking the center diff (read explode).

BTW I thought you are going to post up some pics and write-ups on other topics :P (We are waiting :poke: )

[AlexJet]

...BTW I thought you are going to post up some pics and write-ups on other topics :P (We are waiting :poke: )

Trying to find some time for it. It was my birthday yesterday, so I was a little busy. :drink:

[bulldog]

Trying to find some time for it. It was my birthday yesterday, so I was a little busy. :drink:
Hehehe, hoped you enjoyed your bday!! Hangovers are never fun :flipoff:

Ok back to topic again.

[expat]

Update....as of today.



Mark

I've had a look and seems pretty straight forward......

I'll be in touch shortly with some pricing!



Regards,
Kurt Hidajat
Diff Technics

[bulldog]

Update....as of today.



Mark

I've had a look and seems pretty straight forward......

I'll be in touch shortly with some pricing!



Regards,
Kurt Hidajat
Diff Technics
Kewl, lets see what happens. Now we need to find who will be the first to go :bigok:

[bulldog]

I spoke with Mark on Friday and there seems to be some concern that 4.56 might be a little short for gearing. For the V8 AT 4Rs and FJC ATs.

Attached is a old table I made when looking at gear ratios and tire sizes. I took 75 MPH cruising as the speed. I did it in Excal so its easy to change the speed, etc and update the table. Bottomline is that at 75 MPH you will go from 2200 RPM (stocktires and gears) to around 2500 RPM (33" tires and 4.56 gears).

This is good as the revs are still very reasonable (2500 RPM is not a lot to be spinning at) and you will have a bit more oomph to lug around all the extra weight from armour adn additional wind resistance from the lift, adn also rollign resistance etc from the tires. Also great for the extra load when going on a trip with all the stuff packed.

It also leaves the option open for 34 or 35" tires later without messing with the gears. I guess everybody will have to decide for themselves, but I would highly recommend you try to end up with shorter gearing overall than stock with stock tires to compensate for the extra weight and resistance. As long as you dont cruise at more then 3000 RPM it will still be easy going. Think about it most 4 bangers cruise at much higher RPM.

Just remember you instrumentation will be off by the same amount. At least the 4R odo and speedo I found underread a bit, so by shortening the gearing it will overread some. Will make the MPG look very impressive, use a GPS to see the true difference.

[Mikestang]

Has anyone looked into ways to recalibrate the speedo, via a computer chip or something?

[bulldog]

Has anyone looked into ways to recalibrate the speedo, via a computer chip or something?
Don't know of anybody. If it is really an issue we would be able to find/make a unit and tap it into the sending unit from the drivetrain.

See
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/technical/tz_truspeed.htm

Just need to figure it out for the 4R.

[K6UK]

Yes I've heard good things about the TrueSpeed I think ExpeditionsWest used it and liked it.

-Mike

[Cruiserhead]

The Yellowbox is cheaper- this is what I'm going to get for correction
http://www.ih8mud.com/reviews/fzj80-yellowbox.php

[bulldog]

Mark, any feedback yet in regards to pricing from these guys? Would be good to know if it is a feasible option or if it will hurt the wallet.

[expat]

None yet. You know us Ozzie's. Between training the pet kangaroo, killing all the poisonious spiders and snakes, checking out the sheilas on the beach and drinking lots of beer, there ain't much time for this thing called work. I'll ring him this evening if I don't get any word via email later today.

[bulldog]

None yet. You know us Ozzie's. Between training the pet kangaroo, killing all the poisonious spiders and snakes, checking out the sheilas on the beach and drinking lots of beer, there ain't much time for this thing called work. I'll ring him this evening if I don't get any word via email later today.
:lol: :lol:
Too many :drink: :drink:

[Cruiserhead]

sometimes I wonder about those Ozzies, they make crackheads look like workaholics. well, everything moves pretty slow in 4x4 mods im my experience...

[expat]

sometimes I wonder about those Ozzies, they make crackheads look like workaholics. well, everything moves pretty slow in 4x4 mods im my experience...

Yeah but at least the Ozzies are doing something...the US aftermarket is so slow on our platform its ridiculous.

I just heard back from Randy's Ring and Pinion (http://www.ring-pinion.com/default.asp) and they said they get heaps of enquiries about 4.56 gears for the 4Runner and are still about two years from production!

[bulldog]

Yeah but at least the Ozzies are doing something...the US aftermarket is so slow on our platform its ridiculous.



:xnuts:

Hehehehe, good comeback.

[Cruiserhead]

Yeah but at least the Ozzies are doing something...the US aftermarket is so slow on our platform its ridiculous.



The US aftermarket ARE the crackheads! :jester:

[expat]

Ok...good and bad news...

Bad - no price till end of week (apparently)
Good - definitely doable - he's handed on his requirements for machining etc to another of his staff who is working out the price.

Hopefully soon.

Cheers
Mark

[bulldog]

Ok...good and bad news...

Bad - no price till end of week (apparently)
Good - definitely doable - he's handed on his requirements for machining etc to another of his staff who is working out the price.

Hopefully soon.

Cheers
Mark
They actually make the gears?? I thought they just improted Japanese gears. Oh well lets see what they say. No rush though.

[my034runner]

I spoke with Mark on Friday and there seems to be some concern that 4.56 might be a little short for gearing. For the V8 AT 4Rs and FJC ATs.

Attached is a old table I made when looking at gear ratios and tire sizes. I took 75 MPH cruising as the speed. I did it in Excel so its easy to change the speed, etc and update the table. Bottom line is that at 75 MPH you will go from 2200 RPM (stock tires and gears) to around 2500 RPM (33" tires and 4.56 gears).

This is good as the revs are still very reasonable (2500 RPM is not a lot to be spinning at) and you will have a bit more oomph to lug around all the extra weight from armour and additional wind resistance from the lift, and also rolling resistance etc from the tires. Also great for the extra load when going on a trip with all the stuff packed.

It also leaves the option open for 34 or 35" tires later without messing with the gears. I guess everybody will have to decide for themselves, but I would highly recommend you try to end up with shorter gearing overall than stock with stock tires to compensate for the extra weight and resistance. As long as you don't cruise at more then 3000 RPM it will still be easy going. Think about it most 4 bangers cruise at much higher RPM.

Just remember you instrumentation will be off by the same amount. At least the 4R Odo and speedo I found under-read a bit, so by shortening the gearing it will over read some. Will make the MPG look very impressive, use a GPS to see the true difference.


Okay Andries, you know me, I'm bound to ask a stupid question!

So, would going from the 4.10 to the 4.56's be a good thing on the V6 4Runner? Is it okay at fast freeway speeds, lets say like 100+ mph? Would my gas mileage get any sh*tier than it already is? And having changed the gearing, will my speedo be off more than 5 mph that it's already off now with these 285's? :jester: :confused:

Okay, I know what you're thinking, I can't count very good, because that's more than one (1) stupid question!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :flipoff: :jester:

[bulldog]

Okay Andries, you know me, I'm bound to ask a stupid question!

So, would going from the 4.10 to the 4.56's be a good thing on the V6 4Runner? Is it okay at fast freeway speeds, lets say like 100+ mph? Would my gas mileage get any sh*tier than it already is? And having changed the gearing, will my speedo be off more than 5 mph that it's already off now with these 285's? :jester: :confused:

Okay, I know what you're thinking, I can't count very good, because that's more than one (1) stupid question!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :flipoff: :jester:

OK lets start. Firstly your 4R has 3.909 gears in the diffs not 4.1s (unless you have changed them already??) Secodnly the 4spd auto actually have a slightly taller OD gear than the 5spd (due to the different axle ratios), and the other gears are also taller. This is normal for a 4spd auto comapred to 5spd.

So you will actually gain a lot more in terms of power than folks with 5spds. Normally folks that put on bigger tires and regear find that regearing actually improves their gas mileage as the engine doesn't have to work as hard anymore, and you will find less hunting for gears. Really depends on how much you use the load pedal though.

BY making your gears shorter you actually make your speedo overread, currently it should underread by 7% or so (5MPH at 70 or so). Going to 4.56 gears from 3.909 and running 33s you will overread by 8-9%, meaning when the speedo shows 70MPH you will actually be doing 64MPH or so. We might be able to fix it with the calibraters showed above.

As a general note remeber that the larger tires also make you odo underead, making your gas mileage look worse by 7% or so to what it actually is. With my 32s I tested and found my odo underread by 5% and it makes a difference when you calculate your gas mileage.

SO just for you I quickly calculated. AT 75 MPH true speed your 4R did 2263 RPM stock, with stock gearing and 33s it is doing 2099 RPM, with 33s and 4.56 gears it will do 2449 (which would be perfect fo some extra zip for all the extra stuff you carry :flipoff: ).

[my034runner]

Thanks :bigok:

[expat]

"Sorry Mark,

I have not forgotten I have just been busy I passed it onto Con to chase up……….

I will have something to you tomorrow PM

Thanks for your patience!"



Patience sure is a virtue when it comes to offroading stuff...lol

[bulldog]

"Sorry Mark,

I have not forgotten I have just been busy I passed it onto Con to chase up……….

I will have something to you tomorrow PM

Thanks for your patience!"



Patience sure is a virtue when it comes to offroading stuff...lol

See them :aussie: are also slow :moon: :lol:

Life would have been great if we could just go buy what we need of the shelf. Unfortunately it seem sthe aftermarket in the US is slow for anything, unless it is a Jeep Wrangler.

No rush though. My wallet is probably going to take some serious knocks this winter. I might have to hibernate like last winter on wheeling to get all the mods done.

[expat]

Mark,

First let me apologize as I said I would email you Friday but I had to go to court so I never got a chance to come in sorry.

Alright as for the ring and pinion I can ship both the front and rear 4.56’s to you for $ 410.00 USD

Hope that helps? And sorry for all the delays!

Cheers mate!

Kurt

[bulldog]

Sounds like a pretty decent price, did they mention anything about the install kits?

I might have to give them a call later this week to see if we can ship it back if they are not the correct gears.


Thx for chasing them down Mark, great work. $410 US is not bad at all if it includes the shipping and the quality is good. I think some more $$$ will be needed for the install kits, but those can probably be sourced locally.

[expat]

Sounds like a pretty decent price, did they mention anything about the install kits?

I might have to give them a call later this week to see if we can ship it back if they are not the correct gears.


Thx for chasing them down Mark, great work. $410 US is not bad at all if it includes the shipping and the quality is good. I think some more $$$ will be needed for the install kits, but those can probably be sourced locally.

No.

Ok...I'm gunna leave it to you. I'll email them and thank them and say we'll be in touch.

No problem. Great price I think. The instal kits I've seen are a few hundred I think. I guess a little under a grand is needed for this job excluding labor as most likely that will be a shared cost with lockers. Ahhhhh...it never stops!

I know I will not be able to afford this until next year but I am real happy to help out in the process. I am going to oz in Dec. so I mayb be able to bring them back with me to save more on the costs. Thinking about it, I might buy a set for myself but just not instal them straight away (yeah right!).

Thing is I'd like to do the lockers at the same time but that's way more $ than I'll have this year set aside for the truck. Actually it might be kind of cool to have one truck install the gears and lockers (hint anyone!), and another (mine!) just the gears so there is some comparo stuff possible and also when I am in a position to instal lockers then opening the diff again and having a look at how the gears are holding up would be useful info too.

[K6UK]

I'm a little confused on the gear ratio.
I was of the understanding that the 4runner is geared such that 4.11s are the right choice for 33's.

Am I wrong about this... will 4.56's bring back my gas milage a little (hopefully)?

Just trying to figure this out...

-Mike

[expat]

The quick answer to that is that we are also taking into consideration that the bullbar, winch, rear bumper and camping gear will all add to the weight of the truck which will pull down the performance of the truck.

Yes, I expect gas mileage shoudl improve (keeping all things equal). At the moment I notice with the 275 MTR's that I am putting my foot down more to climb inclines on freeways more than with the stock tires. I believe I have lost up to 2mpg just on the tire change. With all the extra weight as indicated above plus the bigger tires in the future, the math seems to indicate 4.56s are the money numbers.


Cheers
Mark

[expat]

Here's the math I believe to be accurate - Bulldog can correct if not...

RPM = (MPH x 5th Gear x Transfer Case Hi x Diff Gear) / (Tire Size x 0.003)

With that you get:

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2180rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2022rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 1928rpm

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.909) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2287rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.909) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2120rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.909) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2022rpm

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.11) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2404rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.11) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2229rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.11) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2126rpm

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.33) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2533rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.33) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2349rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.33) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2240rpm

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2667rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2473rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2359rpm

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.88) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2855rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.88) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2647rpm
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.88) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2775rpm




If you were to compare stock:

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2180rpm

to a 34" tire:

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (34.6 x 0.003) = 2359rpm

you have an increase rpm of approx 180rpm in fifth. That seems like a real nice leeway for the extra weight.

[expat]

Anyone interested in the possibility of getting gears in the future, could you please post an expression of interest. Its not a committment. Just curious to see if there is a demand beyond a couple of crazy coots here. LOL

Cheers
Mark

[AlexJet]

Anyone interested in the possibility of getting gears in the future, could you please post an expression of interest. Its not a committment. Just curious to see if there is a demand beyond a couple of crazy coots here. LOL

Cheers
Mark

I'm in. Do not have budget for it now, but hope will have it later.;)

[Joel]

Anyone interested in the possibility of getting gears in the future, could you please post an expression of interest. Its not a committment. Just curious to see if there is a demand beyond a couple of crazy coots here. LOL

Cheers
Mark

I'm in.. :rockon:

[bulldog]

Anyone interested in the possibility of getting gears in the future, could you please post an expression of interest. Its not a committment. Just curious to see if there is a demand beyond a couple of crazy coots here. LOL

Cheers
Mark
I'm very interested. We probably need someone to test out a set and work out all the kinks. This way the rest will have the benefit of it. Then we will have a good supplier, etc.

I will start looking for a good shop in my area for installation of the gears and lockers. They should be able to give me lots of good advice on what to get, etc, etc.

[my034runner]

I'd be interested, but am confused by the math equations that Mark listed, which look to exclude the V6 with the 4 speed auto. The 4.56's should still be okay for me too, wouldn't they? :confused:

[expat]

Robert, the V6 final drive ratio is 0.705 whereas the V8 is 0.716 so just swap the figures to do the math.

As an example

V6 with 33"

(75 x 0.705 x 1 x 4.56) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2435rpm


V8 with 33"

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2473rpm



Mark

[my034runner]

Robert, the V6 final drive ratio is 0.705 whereas the V8 is 0.716 so just swap the figures to do the math.

As an example

V6 with 33"

(75 x 0.705 x 1 x 4.56) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2435rpm


V8 with 33"

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.56) / (33.0 x 0.003) = 2473rpm



Mark

So I should be okay with 4.56's as well.
Thanks Mark for finding the source.
Cheers!

[bulldog]

I'd be interested, but am confused by the math equations that Mark listed, which look to exclude the V6 with the 4 speed auto. The 4.56's should still be okay for me too, wouldn't they? :confused:
The way you drive, you should enjoy a bit more pep in acceleration on the highway :P

Seriously though the V6 you have has 3.909 diffs, so going to 4.56 is not such a big gap as the V8s.

A good reference point is that most folks with the 3rd Gens are using 4.88 or 4.56 gears with 33s.

[my034runner]

The way you drive, you should enjoy a bit more pep in acceleration on the highway :P

Seriously though the V6 you have has 3.909 diffs, so going to 4.56 is not such a big gap as the V8s.

A good reference point is that most folks with the 3rd Gens are using 4.88 or 4.56 gears with 33s.


Damn you, I'm getting all confused again. :doh: So, I have a V6 with 33" tires, so 4.56 is good according to the 3rd gen comparison? Or 4.88's? Crap! :devil:

[bulldog]

Damn you, I'm getting all confused again. :doh: So, I have a V6 with 33" tires, so 4.56 is good according to the 3rd gen comparison? Or 4.88's? Crap! :devil:
4.56 will work just wonderful for you!!! Don't let us confuse you with numbers, that's your job ;)

[JP4Crawler]

Gears are a definite here as well. I'll do gears & lockers all at the same time. I'm hoping before the end of the year.

Jason

[AlexJet]

The way you drive, you should enjoy a bit more pep in acceleration on the highway :P

Seriously though the V6 you have has 3.909 diffs, so going to 4.56 is not such a big gap as the V8s.

A good reference point is that most folks with the 3rd Gens are using 4.88 or 4.56 gears with 33s.

Andries, his 4Runner is 2003 V6. So he has 4spd. with 3.909 diffs and 0.716 4th.
2005 V6 with 5spd. Does it has same diffs or 4.11 and 5th is 0.705?
Just checking out if I got them right.

[expat]

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! :cry:

Andries, his 4Runner is 2003 V6 ..... CORRECT

So he has 4spd. with 3.909 diffs ..... CORRECT

and 0.716 4th.... NO. 0.705 AS PER MY POST ABOVE

[AlexJet]

.... NO. 0.705 AS PER MY POST ABOVE

Oops, looks like I missed it.
Are the diffs for 2003 and 2005 V6 the same?
Is 5th on V6 0.716?

[bulldog]

Search and all your questions will be answered. See the 4R page on the main website, not just the forum.

[expat]

I think I have this right...

All 4th gens either have V6 with differential ratios of 3.909 or v8 of 3.727. There are no other variations in stock trim.

As to the transmission, all 4th gens have either 4spd auto 0.705 final drive or 5spd auto 0.716 final drive.

We are not looking at changing the final drive ratio, only the differential gears ratio.

[AlexJet]

I think I have this right...

All 4th gens either have V6 differential ratios of 3.909 or v8 of 3.727. There are no other variations there in stock trim.

As to the transmission, all 4th gens have either 4spd auto 0.705 final drive or 5spd auto 0.716 final drive.

We are not looking at changing the final drive ratio, only the differential gears ratio.

Thanks Mark. That was I was looking for.

Search and all your questions will be answered. See the 4R page on the main website, not just the forum.

Andries, I looked there too, but I think my head just want to explode of all those numbers. Seems that I mismatched all of them in my head and this confused me even more. Sorry, about that. No everything is clear.

[bulldog]

Actually all 4spd auto 4Rs have 3.909 gears, all 5spd auto 4Rs have 3.727 gears irrespective of whether it is a V6 or V8.

The final ratio for the gearboxes Mark listed are correct.

[AlexJet]

Actually all 4spd auto 4Rs have 3.909 gears, all 5spd auto 4Rs have 3.727 gears irrespective of whether it is a V6 or V8.

The final ratio for the gearboxes Mark listed are correct.

So diffs ratios are depend on transmission, not an engine. Thanks.

[K6UK]

I'm definately in for gears (and lockers)

-Mike

[expat]

Actually all 4spd auto 4Rs have 3.909 gears, all 5spd auto 4Rs have 3.727 gears irrespective of whether it is a V6 or V8.

So...

4spd V6 and 4spd V8 have 3.909 diff gearing

and

5spd V6 and 5 spd V8 have 3.727 diff gearing

Cool! I did not read it that way in searches I'd done but it makes sense enough. Thanks for clarifying that Andries.

[Mikestang]

Anyone interested in the possibility of getting gears in the future,

In the distant future, i.e. a year+ from now, I would do gears + lockers.

[AlexJet]

So...

4spd V6 and 4spd V8 have 3.909 diff gearing

and

5spd V6 and 5 spd V8 have 3.727 diff gearing

Cool! I did not read it that way in searches I'd done but it makes sense enough. Thanks for clarifying that Andries.

Looks like it, except V8 was always 5spd.

[bulldog]

Mark, I will see if can get a hold of the Oz guys this evening to ask them some ??? I still plan on getting some gears from them.

I saw this on TTORA, so it might be an interesting option as well, if they can actually deliver by getting gears.
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=500714#post500714

[bulldog]

I still need to phone the guys in OZ for the gears :spank:

Here is some more interesting info and something tio keep in mind. As some of you know there has been a number of Tacos and FJC with rear lockers that have grenaded there rear diffs. Upon further investigation some guys in europe and a number in Oz (without lockers) have also grenaded there rear diffs. What happens is that the actuall ring and pinion strip the teeth off.

James was able to find a nice write up by Darren McCae in Oz, he runs ats4x4 and is well respected in modding Toyotas. Pretty much the go to guru in Oz for Toyota 4x4 mods.

He describes the problem as follows:
"If you want to make the rear diff stronger, and stop the crownwheel flexing
away from the pinion, leaving the teeth unsupported, you need to fit an ARB
locker, which has a much stronger hemisphere, and no hole in the side of the
carrier to get the side gears in, and the diff needs to be set up with a
solid
pinion spacer, rather than the crushable type it comes with.

These mods wont prevent abuse breaking it, but they make the diff as strong
as
it can be.

And if you get the new crownwheel and pinion from toyota under warranty,
rather
than a whole new diff, which can do the same thing, it will allow you to
have the
mods done to strengthen it."

So far it he has not seen any failures after doing this mod on the Prados in Oz, which means it is probably the way to do it to make the rear end last. This is actually funny as previous gens used to grenade the front, Toyota beefs it up and now the rear goes. Still a lot of unanswered questions surrounding the failures though, so we shouldn't get into a panic mode (at least the solution is clear).

Also remember we have not seen any failures on the stock setup in the 4Rs in the US. Prados are heavier than the 4R and also the Oz guys tend to load them up more ( long expiditions), so the rear carries a lot more wieght. However the 4R has a V8 with a 5spd auto, so the combination of the V8 and torq converter and low 1st gear will put more torque on the rear than either the PRado, Taco or FJC. So I would recommend when you open the rear to make it as strong as possible.

Looking at Darren's recommendations, it seems the best way to go when regearing is to put the ARB in. Also to get the solid pinion spacer. I got some advice from the Nrocal 80 LC guys for an installer that seems to do this. The guy is based in Sacramento (Sean Eskilsen (owner) at River City Differentials 916-852-7109). He carries a good rep with the Cruiser guys, which is a good thing.

SO I will try to phone both him and the Oz gear guys this week to see what is up.

Not saying you have to go this route, but from the information availible so far it seems the safe route to go.

Hopefully Sean can help out with this.

I will only be able to install my gears late Oct at the earliest as I want to finish the Randsburg run and then "close up shop" for winter mod time :D Maybe I can get Mark to bring me a set when he gets back from Oz :guitar:

I will post up when I have more info on this and how we can get it done in the US. But I would recommend to have a very professional and experienced shop do this.

All in all better to do the homework upfront, than learn the lessons on the trail.

[bulldog]

Here is another guy in the US, that is very highly rathed for the Toyota diffs. He seems to be able to do it if you uninstall the 3rds and then ship it to him. He is known as ZUK on some forums.
http://gearinstalls.com/

[Cruiserhead]

Yes, I heard this as well- w/ you get the ARB locker put in, use shims instead of the Toyota crush washer.
This will make for a stronger unit if you are going to abuse it. I didn't know this before, so the crush washer isn't a "weak link" per se as I never hear of this being a issue but best to do it since it's open anyway.

[expat]

Great info. This is what makes this site standout. There's investigation and consideration before procession.

[bulldog]

OK, just spoke to Sean at River City Diff.

He can supply the ARB lockers, install kit, bearings, etc that are required for the install. He said to alow 2 days ro so to get the job done, but can be arranged to drop of on Saturday and pick up again on the next Saturday.

He does the solid spacer instead of the crush washer as most folks prefer it.

So anyhow if I install the electrics and compressor, and supply the compressor and gears, and drop the truck off at his premises. He told me to budget on $2500 to then do the rest, supply the lockers, bearings, gaskets, etc and do all the labour of pulling the diffs, installing the lockers, bearings and gears.

So anyhow that is what I'm planning on doing. Sounds pricey till you do a breakdown of the parts cost and figure out the labor involved. Also gives only one person the responsibility of getting everything done and supplying all the parts, no finger pointing. Hopefully we will get the formula down then. Always expensive to be on the bleeding edge.

So Mark when are you going to OZ, to go get some gears?

Side Note: This is poing to put a dent in my mod budget and delay getting skids and rear bumper.

[AlexJet]

... He told me to budget on $2500 to then do the rest, supply the lockers, bearings, gaskets, etc and do all the labour of pulling the diffs, installing the lockers, bearings and gears.
...

Wow, $2'500 for driveline is a really big hole in the budget...
As I can think it includes gears (x2), lockers (x2) and labor.
Here in Canada the same job will cost ~$4’000Cdn. :(

[K6UK]

Well... actually the gears were extra, and so was the compressor.
So it's more like $3000.

-Mike

[bulldog]

Yes it is expensive. Remember this is only budget numbers. The real number will be known only once it has been done. You can save some $$$ by buying components all over the place, and taking out the 3rds yourself, etc. The only thing is don't go cheap on the drivetrain. Doing a regear takes quite a bit more effort than just a locker install.

Let me list out some parts

Lockers $1600 (give or take tax and/or shipping)
Install kits $250 (bearings, seals, etc)
Compressor $200
Ring and pinions $500 (more or less)

[bulldog]

Well I ordered a set of gears last night. Will see how long it takes to get here, etc. Or at least I hope I ordered the gears over the phone, not sure Kurt alwasy understands me. Maybe Mark should start a sideline biz to import Oz stuff, since he speaks Oz :P

I will probably ship the gears to Sean for inspection once I get them. Will at least tell us if they are good gears or not, will only know about fitment once it is on the truck.

[Joel]

I was going to say order 2 sets, but I guess I'll just wait for your results at this point ;)

[bulldog]

I was going to say order 2 sets, but I guess I'll just wait for your results at this point ;)
Well you can just give Kurt a call and order a set. Not the easiest process though. Or maybe wait till I have a set and hopefully get it installed to see if they actually fit and work for the 4R. Once you speak to Kurt you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

[Joel]

Once you speak to Kurt you will know exactly what I'm talking about.

From how you make it sound, I almost want to call for the entertainment value! :roflmao: :aussie:

[Mikestang]

Well I ordered a set of gears last night.

Woot, grats. You ordering the lockers soon, too? Looking forward to how it turns out (hopefully for the best!).

[expat]

Hey, don't dis us Ozzies otherwise we might just reject your orders for gears! LOL

By the way I had no problem speaking to Kurt...

ring ring

"Gadday Kurto, how ya hanging? Mate I need a hookup. Can ya slide some gears me way and include ship'n by the fly'n kanga. That would be bonza. Your grouse mate. Use the dog and bone when yuv gotta slice. Blimey...gotta skoot...some bugger called Andries on the other dog and bone...huh....what...no...not a sheila...yeah, sounds kinda eurotrash but he's on the fly. Ok, Cooey Cobber!"

click

[Dealmaker]

:lol: :rotflmao: :mecry: :jester:

Hey, don't dis us Ozzies otherwise we might just reject your orders for gears! LOL

By the way I had no problem speaking to Kurt...

ring ring

"Gadday Kurto, how ya hanging? Mate I need a hookup. Can ya slide some gears me way and include ship'n by the fly'n kanga. That would be bonza. Your grouse mate. Use the dog and bone when yuv gotta slice. Blimey...gotta skoot...some bugger called Andries on the other dog and bone...huh....what...no...not a sheila...yeah, sounds kinda eurotrash but he's on the fly. Ok, Cooey Cobber!"

click

[bulldog]

Hey, don't dis us Ozzies otherwise we might just reject your orders for gears! LOL

By the way I had no problem speaking to Kurt...

ring ring

"Gadday Kurto, how ya hanging? Mate I need a hookup. Can ya slide some gears me way and include ship'n by the fly'n kanga. That would be bonza. Your grouse mate. Use the dog and bone when yuv gotta slice. Blimey...gotta skoot...some bugger called Andries on the other dog and bone...huh....what...no...not a sheila...yeah, sounds kinda eurotrash but he's on the fly. Ok, Cooey Cobber!"

click
:bow: :bow: :rotflmao:

That was excellent!!

[Mikestang]

By the way I had no problem speaking to Kurt...

:lol:

I used to talk "californian" when I'd go to the mid-west, and it sounded just as much a foreign language to them as that does to me. Classic.

[mtnracer]

Seems like many people want to put lockers front and rear. Are there any concerns that the front diff is not strong enough to withstand the "pressure"; of a locker. From what I understand the rear diff is a lot stronger than the front. Any truth to this?

[bulldog]

Seems like many people want to put lockers front and rear. Are there any concerns that the front diff is not strong enough to withstand the "pressure"; of a locker. From what I understand the rear diff is a lot stronger than the front. Any truth to this?
This might hold more truth on the 3rd and older gen 4Runners. The front diff and CV axles has been beefed up quite bit from the 3rd Gens now. The diff is now 8" instead of 7.5" and the cv axles are upgraded from 28mm and 27 splines to 33mm and 30 splines. This is why getting the front gears have been an issue, as they are a new design and no reuse from previous Toyota applications.

[Jared]

What Andries said...

The front diff is actually quite strong. I think it has been figured out to be about the strength of a Dana 44 axle.

With all the rear problems on the Taco/FJ/Prado, I'd be more worried about the rear at this point.

[mtnracer]

Thanks for the info. Some more questions:

Where do you plan on installing the compressor?
Are you getting the ARB compressor or the ExtremeAir?

[bulldog]

Thanks for the info. Some more questions:

Where do you plan on installing the compressor?
Are you getting the ARB compressor or the ExtremeAir?
See this thread, hope James fix the links to the pictures.
http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17&highlight=locker

But basically ARB lcompressor mounted by the steering reservoir is my plan.

So back to gear topic.

My CC still has not ben charged. I will call Kurt later this week.

[expat]

Have you spoken to Kurt yet? Is everything moving ahead ok?

[bulldog]

Have you spoken to Kurt yet? Is everything moving ahead ok?
Haven't had time to call him. Send him emails with no response. Have not seen a charge on my CC either. I will try to get hold of him tonight.

This type of response is OK to get an initial set, but I can't recommend them as a supplier unless they get their act together.

I will post back as I see movement.

[bulldog]

Haven't gotten hold of Kurt yet, but I noticed today my CC have been charged $412.13 So lets see what happens. Will send him another email and try to give him a call next week.

[bulldog]

Gear have shipped :banana:

Now lets see when I get it.

[Mikestang]

Have you ordered the lockers yet, too?

[bulldog]

Have you ordered the lockers yet, too?
Nope I will get those once I get the OK from Sean. I will probably inspect the gears and then ship it to him to look at and OK first.

[JP4Crawler]

So the gears came from Kurt at ATS4x4? I am now in the market & need them ASAP. What are the specifics of your order? Contact info? Thanks!

Jason

[bulldog]

It's Kurt at Diff Technics in Oz. I need to see if he has shipped me the right gears first though. The front is the tricky part.

[bulldog]

OK good news/bad news

Good news, the gear just arrived today so shipping was pretty quick.


Bad news, they shipped me the 7.5" front R&P not the 8".

Spoke with Kurt so he will follow up and let me know, what's what.

Moral of the story, we will have to wait till it is installed till we know we have the right gears. So I will probably ship the gears to Sean once I have an 8" front for him to check. Probably order the lockers as well, so he can compare against it. Even then he might crack it open and find I have the wrong stuff. He can then just square it off with Kurt, so they can talk gears.

[expat]

Damn! How did that get screwed up. After all the talk about 8"! Damn!

So what was the time from shipping to recieving?

[bulldog]

Damn! How did that get screwed up. After all the talk about 8"! Damn!

So what was the time from shipping to recieving?
Yep and the size difference is quite apparent when you see the 2 rings next to each other.

I have a feeling once I get the new gears and I take my truck to Sean it will be out of commision for some time to get the right freaken gears, etc.

Looks like a week or so to get the gears, but lets see how it plays out.

[expat]

Why do you think it will out of commission for sometime (I assume you mean quite a while)? When you do get the 8" gears, shouldn't it be a simple remove and replace deal?

(ok - I understand you'll be doing lockers too but that's is a given)

[bulldog]

Well Kurt just phoned back, so I need to measure some stuff to see.

Mark I just have a feelign, that we might have to swap out parts a few times to get it right. It is a lot easier once the actual diff is apart to see what is what and measure stuff.

EDIT: BTW Kurt seems a lot more reponsive in customer service than with sales. So hopefully it turns out good.

[bulldog]

Kurt send me a bunch of pics. Anybody going to get under their front diff soon? If so can you let me know and I can send you some measurements to take of the diff housing and let me know what you find.

He seems to think the front ring is 7.5" and I say it is 8". He apparently has a Prado in the shop at the moment, I used ARB specsheet as guide and some other info. Quickest way will be to measure so we can resolve adn figure out what we need. I dont want to take my 4R to the shop and let it stand around for weeks while we organize the parts.

[Joel]

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showpost.php?p=524477&postcount=116

[bulldog]

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showpost.php?p=524477&postcount=116
Interesting that the carrier needs to be swapped. Doesn't matter as I will be putting in a a locker anyhow. I will measure some outside dimensions to compare to the ones Kurt send me this weekend. I will probably order the front locker to check the gears on it.

Just frustrating as so little info is availible and so many different small things. May just have to pull the 4R of the road and go park it at the gear installer and have them pull it apart adn measure the things out. Will probably do that anyhow when the wheeling season finishes.

[Joel]

Another guy got a set from Precision Gear...

Looks like it's about gear time! Altho I'm gonna have to let my wallet recoup for a bit after this bumper and the acces. that end up costing more than the bumper.

[bulldog]

Well still a lot of R&D wil need to be done before we actually know what is what with regearign and locking up the 4R, so save up :D

[Joel]

A taco is getting a set install right now. With it he's getting lockers and a supercharger.. something tells me if they work for him..... :thrasher:

[JP4Crawler]

Hey guys-

4XDr has apparantly got a source, but we are still trying to make sure it's right, well as close as possible before we open it up. As you know, this is tricky stuff, even for the seasoned vets. The 4x source is coming from Iceland, from a Prado. They say they may have them next week, but price will be around $400 just for the front.

Also spoke with All Pro, & they are expecting theirs in about 3-4 wks. Theirs will be for 3.9 & up, but with an ARB locker, he says no prob with the 3.7. Price on theirs will also be around $400 for just the front. No install kit or labor, obviously. Both sources state that pricing is just a rough estimate for now.

If 4XDr can get their hands on the gears, my 4R may be in the shop next week. I will keep updating as I make progress. Oh, All Pro also said their Mngr blew a rear & went to arbitration & got Toyota to cover it. Nice to know if the gears don't work out. Don't know if I can wait 4 wks for All Pro.

Jason

[bulldog]

Well this sounds promising. I will be taking maesurements this weekend of the outside and I'm in theprocess of ordering the front locker so I can match against the carrier. I still have this nagging feeling that there is going to a bit more to it that just using Taco gears or wherever we get the gears till all is sorted out.

JP, hope they get you hooked up pretty quick.

[tour4fun]

Will probably do that anyhow when the wheeling season finishes.

When does wheeling season end :P ?

[05sport4x4]

When does wheeling season end :P ?
I thought we just went from the mountains to the desert when it got cooler ;)

[bulldog]

I thought we just went from the mountains to the desert when it got cooler ;)
OK, when my wheeling season ends this year. How about that :P

Back to topic again then :D

[my034runner]

I thought we just went from the mountains to the desert when it got cooler ;)



:iagree :iagree :iagree :iagree :iagree :iagree When doe's the wheeling season end exactly? I must have missed the memo on the end of the season. :bigok:

[expat]

Off topic. Let's keep the focus as this is a solid thread. :D

[bulldog]

OK, I measured my front diff housing today and took some detailed pics for the Oz guys. It definitely looks like they shipped me the older gen stuff and also the diff housing they showed me was different form ours.

I'm pretty sure it is an 8" ring gear we have in the front.

Just for reference here are the specs ARB gives for the rign gear on the 4Runner/GX/FJC. RD23 is rear and RD111 is for the front. Files attached. Yeah I send these to Kurt as well. Now lets see what happens.

I will be ordering a front locker from Sean on Monday to have the carrier for future match ups. Hopefully the Taco guys come up with a solution as well. Maybe we will have a few optiosn by the end of the year.

PS: Joel you happy I didn't order a secodn set now :flipoff:

[expat]

I won't get in the middle of your correspondence with Kurt at this stage but I did send him pictures of the front diff housing to show him the differences and in each correspodence I had with him by email, I did state clearly 8". This sucks!

[bulldog]

I won't get in the middle of your correspondence with Kurt at this stage but I did send him pictures of the front diff housing to show him the differences and in each correspodence I had with him by email, I did state clearly 8". This sucks!

I was expecting some problems to be honest. A little back and forth will just be part of the game I suppose. I don't mind too much as long as we get it resolved and the end solution is a good one. I would rather go back and forth now than when My 4R is on a lift with diffs open or even worse if it breaks on the trail.

That said they clearly needed to properly check things before sending it out. :soap:

[Mikestang]

Regarding the front diff, there's a shot of it disassembled on the TrailLex write up: http://www.fourwheeler.com/projectbuild/129_0503_lexus_gx470_front_differential_upgrade_pr oblem/photo_09.html

[bulldog]

Well it seems the TTORA precision gear thing might be on issue.
http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25984&page=6&pp=30

Guess it will take some more research to egt it together.

Kurt has not come back to me, so I'll ring him tonight.

[Mikestang]

Hmm, the fact that that guy had his done at 4WheelParts tells me something right off the bat...

[bulldog]

Hmm, the fact that that guy had his done at 4WheelParts tells me something right off the bat...
Might be true, but lets see maybe some guys there find some gears. However the first round of "eay" fit gears blew up. Sorryfor the guy with his truck, but hopefully he gets sorted and actually a set of gears that will work.

Update: I spoke with Kurt, he said the ARB specs will be very useful and will get back to me once he got it sorted. I will let you guys know. Hopefully I get the right gears for the front soon.

[bulldog]

Here is what a grenaded rear diff looks like. From a Prado.

[expat]

Interesting...I get the magazine "Offroad Adventures" which is a 4Wheel Parts production I believe, and in the back of the Sept. issue, is an ad for ...

NEW!!!!
07 FJ Cruiser Package
NOW AVAILABLE
* Front and rear gears
* Front install kit
* Rear Overhaul kit
* ARB
* Mini compressor

ONLY $1399.99


Also interesting is an additional ad that states

Gear for Your Gears
DRIVETRAIN
WAREHOUSE


This is all in one full page ad from 4WheelParts. It appears that 4WheelParts is sourcing gears from Drivetrain Warehouse.


I looked at the Drivetrain Warehouse site (apparently they are in Vegas) but they don't list the gears for the FJ. Now given that its all new, maybe their site doesn't reflect new parts.

I've emailed both 4WheelParts and Drivetrain Warehouse to see what they are actually offering in the package as the ad seems to be missing some details and doesn't give specifics.

[AlexJet]

Interesting...I get the magazine "Offroad Adventures" which is a 4Wheel Parts production I believe, and in the back of the Sept. issue, is an ad for ...

NEW!!!!
07 FJ Cruiser Package
NOW AVAILABLE
* Front and rear gears
* Front install kit
* Rear Overhaul kit
* ARB
* Mini compressor

ONLY $1399.99


Also interesting is an additional ad that states

Gear for Your Gears
DRIVETRAIN
WAREHOUSE


This is all in one full page ad from 4WheelParts. It appears that 4WheelParts is sourcing gears from Drivetrain Warehouse.


I looked at the Drivetrain Warehouse site (apparently they are in Vegas) but they don't list the gears for the FJ. Now given that its all new, maybe their site doesn't reflect new parts.

I've emailed both 4WheelParts and Drivetrain Warehouse to see what they are actually offering in the package as the ad seems to be missing some details and doesn't give specifics.

Very interesting..... Where did you get that magazine from? My local book store doesn't have those ones. Do you know ISBN #? I might try to Special Order it, but the store is asking for ISBN #.

[Jared]

Very interesting..... Where did you get that magazine from? My local book store doesn't have those ones. Do you know ISBN #? I might try to Special Order it, but the store is asking for ISBN #.

You can only get them from 4wheelparts. I bought some staun deflators from there once, and now I get the magazine all the time.

Looking inside the cover, it says you can go to www.oramagazine.com to get a free subscription.

[AlexJet]

You can only get them from 4wheelparts. I bought some staun deflators from there once, and now I get the magazine all the time.

Looking inside the cover, it says you can go to www.oramagazine.com to get a free subscription.

Looks like it works only for US. I'm in Canada.

[bulldog]

Not sure if I trust 4WParts with something like this. But lets see, maybe they have something, and hopefully it uses quality stuff.


Stll waiting for Kurt to get back to me. :pissed1:

[mtnracer]

Interesting...I get the magazine "Offroad Adventures" which is a 4Wheel Parts production I believe, and in the back of the Sept. issue, is an ad for ...

NEW!!!!
07 FJ Cruiser Package
NOW AVAILABLE
* Front and rear gears
* Front install kit
* Rear Overhaul kit
* ARB
* Mini compressor

ONLY $1399.99


Also interesting is an additional ad that states

Gear for Your Gears
DRIVETRAIN
WAREHOUSE


This is all in one full page ad from 4WheelParts. It appears that 4WheelParts is sourcing gears from Drivetrain Warehouse.


I looked at the Drivetrain Warehouse site (apparently they are in Vegas) but they don't list the gears for the FJ. Now given that its all new, maybe their site doesn't reflect new parts.

I've emailed both 4WheelParts and Drivetrain Warehouse to see what they are actually offering in the package as the ad seems to be missing some details and doesn't give specifics.


This would be an awesome deal if available / not a misprint...

[JP4Crawler]

All Pro Offroad has 10-15 sets of gears, that they have tested on an FJ, due in about 2 wks. Out of everyone I've spoken to on the issue, they seem the most confident & sure of the quality & proper application. Give them a call for more details.(951) 658-7077. When I spoke with them, they assured me that these gears are what I was looking for.
Jason

[mtnracer]

All Pro Offroad has 10-15 sets of gears, that they have tested on an FJ, due in about 2 wks. Out of everyone I've spoken to on the issue, they seem the most confident & sure of the quality & proper application. Give them a call for more details.(951) 658-7077. When I spoke with them, they assured me that these gears are what I was looking for.
Jason

What is the gear ratio that All Pro is selling? Were you able to find out about the package deal at 4Wheel Parts?

[bulldog]

What is the gear ratio that All Pro is selling? Were you able to find out about the package deal at 4Wheel Parts?
On the TTORA thread it seems like they brought in a bunch of 4.56 gears from Iceland. They are going to be a bit precey, but if they are good it will be worth it.

Make sure that you validate the gears adn the carrier you are going to use. I think with the stock 3.73 gear you will need to change the front carrier. So you might as well lock it up and get the right ARB airlocker (RD111 front and RD23 rear).

[Mikestang]

Is my math correct? There's been like 18 posts on these gear calcs, and I want to make sure I have the right numbers for my vehicle:

Stock:
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (30.6 x 0.003) = 2180rpm

My current tires:
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (31.6 x 0.003) = 2111rpm

33" tires I'd get eventually:
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 3.727) / (32.9 x 0.003) = 2028rpm

Gear that closely matches stock rps w/33's:
(75 x 0.716 x 1 x ?) / (32.9 x 0.003) = 2180rpm
? = 4.0068, say 4.11 then

(75 x 0.716 x 1 x 4.11) / (32.9 x 0.003) = 2236rpm

4.56's seem to be the only gear being tracked down, which yield 2481rpm per the above calcs. My point of re-gearing would be to try to approximate the stock rpms as closely as possible when I go to 33s. Once the 4.56s have been sourced can it be assumed that any of these other common ratios can be had as well, or do you guys think 4.56s will be the only option available in the near future?

[bulldog]

Mike, see the attached PDF I posted in this thread with a table of different gear ratios and tire sizes for the 5 spd auto 4R. It covers all the different gear ratios and tire sizes, so you can easily pick your answer from it.

[Mikestang]

Cool, I did look at it, but like to understand where the numbers came from, too. How 'bout the second part of my post, do the people you've (and anyone else) been talking with only have 4.56s, or do they think they can get other ratios as well?

[bulldog]

Cool, I did look at it, but like to understand where the numbers came from, too. How 'bout the second part of my post, do the people you've (and anyone else) been talking with only have 4.56s, or do they think they can get other ratios as well?

Mike I created a spreadsheet to calculate the numbers. It's pretty simple to calculate, and trust me they are accurate :P

Yes there re other gears availible, but the most common sizes for aftermarket is 4.11, 4.56, 4.88 adn 5.29. 4.33 will work well, but is not really a ratio that is commonly availible in the aftermarket for Toy axles.

Most people want to get 4.56 to make the final drive shorter than stock even with bigger tires. This compensates for the extra weight from armour (bumpers, sliders, skids) and also camping stuff people normally take with. It also leaves the door open for up to 35" tires in the future :D

[JP4Crawler]

Any luck on the gears from Oz?

All Pro said another 3wks, last wk it was 2, stuck in customs probably. I was hoping for gears before toyota decided on my claim, in case they said no, I'd have new gears & lockers. Corp denied my claim, so I am looking at a rebuild of the rear w/ solid pinion spacer, stock gears & ARB locker. I hate to spend the $$ & not regear, but the 4R has been down long enough & I think this gear thing may turn into the "next wk" thing for a while.

Jason

[bulldog]

According to Kurt I should have my new fronts next week. So if you want to try them let me know, hopefully I do get them next week. I still think it will take some trailand error to get it right, but I'm just going to ship the wrong ones back anyway.

I thought All pro will have theirs in next week. How much are they going to charge for their gears? My front and rear set was around $415, but it might change once I get the new fronts.

[JP4Crawler]

All Pro will probably charge that for just the front. I would definitely expect some unforseen circumstances causing delays. I will know Monday when 4XDr can begin work. If you get the gears before then & they look right to you, I may give it a go. I'll let you know next wk. Thanks.

Jason

[JP4Crawler]

Sep 26th is the earliest I can get in at 4XDr. It seems findind stock gears for the rear is an issue too. Dealer only? No after market?! They want more for gears than a whole new 3rd. I'm checking the salvage yards just in case I can't get this sorted out. Also, no one carries the solid pinion spacer, it's a custom part. Sean, at River City Diff, will make it, if requested, if he does the install, but he does fab it. If anyone has a source, let me know.

All Pro is saying only 1 wk, so we'll see. If I can't re-gear, I'll just throw in a used 3rd myself. At this rate, I may not be back on the road for Randsburb, which I was looking forward to.

Andries, if you get those gears & don't mind letting them go, I'll give them a shot. It would be a pitty to have the 4R down for so long & end up with a used 3rd, which I could have done 3 wks ago.

I needed my wheelin' fix so bad, I droped in on Rowher Lookout Trail in my 06 Duramax Silverado, that was fun, but I'd feel better in the 4R. The bikers on the trail were pissin' their pants. It was great!

Jason

[bulldog]

I'm waiting on Kurt to get back to me on the front gears though. No point in just regearing the rear. Check out the site where Joel found his transfer case, I think they were not to bad for 3rds. At least you know it will be the one for the 4th Gen.

[vk120]

check this page.
It shows some LC 120 models with 4.1 and 4.555 gears so Toyota may have tha answer to shorter gears.
http://www.marks4wd.com/misc_info/transmission_info.htm#Prado120

[bulldog]

Allpro are apperantly getting there gears from Iceland, and using geniune Toyota gears. Maybe one of the dealers in the US can just find out the part number and start carrying those front gears.

Kurt said he finally tracked down the correct front gears for me. So lets see what happens when I get them. Diff Technics are not the fastest guys, but hopefully we get it right sometime and the process will go smoother.

[bulldog]

Man this blows. Kurt just notified me that the fronts won't be ready for at least another 90 days. So I'm going to send all the gears back and then pick it up in the new year again.

It looks like Allpro will only have their gears sorted out in a few weeks and probably only be really availible in the new year anyhow.

Guess I will have to focus on another area till Feb or so next year. Oh well.

[vk120]

have you checked this?
YG TLCF-456R TOY LC 4.56 REV R&P (NEW_LANDCRUISER_FRONT)8" Toyota 8.0 4.56

from here
http://www.ringpinion.com/content/products/default.asp?vid=12&pid=4

[bulldog]

have you checked this?
YG TLCF-456R TOY LC 4.56 REV R&P (NEW_LANDCRUISER_FRONT)8" Toyota 8.0 4.56

from here
http://www.ringpinion.com/content/products/default.asp?vid=12&pid=4
I can phone them and check with them, but I believe the 8" front they list is slightly different the one we need for the 120 front diffs.

[vk120]

Please do if you can.

I was excited with the "(NEW_LANDCRUISER_FRONT)8" " title.

[bulldog]

Please do if you can.

I was excited with the "(NEW_LANDCRUISER_FRONT)8" " title.
I'll give them a call this week.

[expat]

I'll give them a call this week.


Unless its new, the last time I rang Ring&Pinion they could not help us. Anyhow, bug them for some love for our trucks.

[bulldog]

Please do if you can.

I was excited with the "(NEW_LANDCRUISER_FRONT)8" " title.
These gears will not work on the new front diffs of the 4Runner, Prado or FJC. THey don't know when they will have anything for the front diffs either. Oh well, guess we will have to keep working on it.

[RocKrawler]

We got in 2 sample sets of 4.88 gears in hand that we have not installed yet, but with air freight they are very cost prohibitive. We have 10 more sets coming economy freight on a stock order. We also have 4.56 coming in, but dont have a firm date yet. If you have to have a set immediately the 4.88's can be sold (but with $130 each air freight added to the gear price to cover our shipping, sorry) so let me know. Personally i'm waiting for the 4.56's.

Terry- All Pro

[Teotwaki]

How about these?

http://www.trail-gear.com/toy-rpgears.html

3rd Gen maybe?

[bulldog]

How about these?

http://www.trail-gear.com/toy-rpgears.html

3rd Gen maybe?
Those look like the older Gens gears. The problem we have is getting front gears as the new front diff is completely new.

[bulldog]

We got in 2 sample sets of 4.88 gears in hand that we have not installed yet, but with air freight they are very cost prohibitive. We have 10 more sets coming economy freight on a stock order. We also have 4.56 coming in, but dont have a firm date yet. If you have to have a set immediately the 4.88's can be sold (but with $130 each air freight added to the gear price to cover our shipping, sorry) so let me know. Personally i'm waiting for the 4.56's.

Terry- All Pro
Good to know. I would definitely go for 4.56s as the 4.88s is a bit of an overkill for the AT 4Rs, unless somebody wants to run 37" tires or something.

How much will the normal price be on the 4.56s coming in via normal freight?

[vk120]

I found that these part no
41201-80198
41201-69456
are front and rear toyota 4.56 gears in toyota japan catalog.
Can you verify?
Do you know anything for 4.3 ratio gears?
I think 4.56 gonna be to low for 285/70R17 at least for my LC120 with the D-4D engine.

[AlexJet]

I found that these part no
41201-80198
41201-69456
are front and rear toyota 4.56 gears in toyota japan catalog.
Can you verify?
Do you know anything for 4.3 ratio gears?
I think 4.56 gonna be to low for 285/70R17 at least for my LC120 with the D-4D engine.

Many guys want 4.56 because it gives you ability to upgrade to 35" and/or carry extra weight.
I, personally, prefer 4.11.

[bulldog]

I found that these part no
41201-80198
41201-69456
are front and rear toyota 4.56 gears in toyota japan catalog.
Can you verify?
Do you know anything for 4.3 ratio gears?
I think 4.56 gonna be to low for 285/70R17 at least for my LC120 with the D-4D engine.
Will have to phone a dealer as I can't locate those part numbers online in the US.

Found the second one though, probably for the rear.

Robert can you check this with your parts guy and let us know? Also how much these would be if they can be found in the US.

4.3 gears will be very difficult to find as it is not really a popular choice by hte looks of it. 4.11 might be a better choice for a TD engine as they don't like to run at higher RPMs, especially since you are planning on staying with 33s. WIth gas engines there is more benefit in letting them run at slightly higher RPM than stock, especially when you add a lot fo weight to the truck.

[AlexJet]

... WIth gas engines there is more benefit in letting them run at slightly higher RPM than stock, especially when you add a lot fo weight to the truck.

Hmm, Right now with bumper, winch, trail armor and 33", I can say that I might need extra RPMs for a highway, but just a little, maybe 150-200. So 4.11 for gas engine (at least V6) sound very reasonable too.

[Mikestang]

If you mix and match a pinion gear from a 4.11 set with a ring gear from a 4.56 set (or is it the other way around?) you'll end up with the 4.3X's you're after. This was done in the mustang communtity with 3.73s and 4.10s to achieve a 3.90 ratio.

[bulldog]

If you mix and match a pinion gear from a 4.11 set with a ring gear from a 4.56 set (or is it the other way around?) you'll end up with the 4.3X's you're after. This was done in the mustang communtity with 3.73s and 4.10s to achieve a 3.90 ratio.
Dunno if the Toyota gears will work that way as the teeth still needs to line up. A gear expert will know better then me. Simply just a function of ring gear teeth divided by pinion gear teeth.

The 4.56 gears I have has 9 teeth on the pinion and 41 on the ring gear. SO if you can find ring gear with 39 teeth that fits it will give you 4.3. I believe the 4.1 gears have 41 ring and 10 pinion teeths. The stock 3.73 gears have 41 ring and 11 pinion as best I know.

[Mikestang]

Dunno if the Toyota gears will work that way as the teeth still needs to line up.
We can add it to the list of things to investigate, once front gears are located. :)

[bulldog]

We can add it to the list of things to investigate, once front gears are located. :)
Good idea. We will need to get a good gear installer and drop lots of parts for them to look at. I'm sure Sean at River city will do it once we can get our hands on some gears.

The only thing will be that most people prefer to use new ring and pinion so they can seat in each other, they highly advise against using a 2nd hand ring or pinion with a new ring or pinion, or 2 second hand ones that didn't seat in eahc other. Apparently that leads to more failures.

[my034runner]

Will have to phone a dealer as I can't locate those part numbers online in the US.

Found the second one though, probably for the rear.

Robert can you check this with your parts guy and let us know? Also how much these would be if they can be found in the US.

4.3 gears will be very difficult to find as it is not really a popular choice by the looks of it. 4.11 might be a better choice for a TD engine as they don't like to run at higher RPMs, especially since you are planning on staying with 33s. With gas engines there is more benefit in letting them run at slightly higher RPM than stock, especially when you add a lot to weight to the truck.


Yeah Andries, I'll go back and check now.

[my034runner]

Alright, I had Scott look up both numbers, the first # 41201-80198 the computer said did not exist.

The second # 41201-69456 does. BUT, however boys and girls, the price is :shocked: :shocked: :shocked: :eek: :eek:

I was looking right at the screen when he pulled them up. The set has a COST of $500.00!! :shocked: :eek: Retail is like $647.00 :poke:

And that is just for that one part number. And also, there isn't any in the US at all. We'd have to get them from Japan, 6-8 weeks.

[bulldog]

Thx Robert, yeah the Toyota gears are $$$$$$. I believe the part number is for a ring and pinion kit.

[my034runner]

Going through the vendor section on TTORA, I saw a couple of companies advertising gears. I'll try looking them this weekend. ;)

[vk120]

Both part numbers exist and are toyota gears.
I believe the 41201-69456 are for the rear and 41201-80198 are the most wanted front.
I don't have any reason to doubt the guy who gave me the part nos i just want to double check before i decide if i want to order them.

If we find out we can mix rings and rinions fron diff gear sets the having 4.3 gear is simple by just using 4.1 pinion (10 teeth?) with my stock ring 43 teeth.

FWI 3.909 gears are 43 teeth ring 11 teeth pinion.

[my034runner]

Both part numbers exist and are Toyota gears.
I believe the 41201-69456 are for the rear and 41201-80198 are the most wanted front.
I don't have any reason to doubt the guy who gave me the part nos i just want to double check before i decide if i want to order them.

If we find out we can mix rings and pinions from diff gear sets the having 4.3 gear is simple by just using 4.1 pinion (10 teeth?) with my stock ring 43 teeth.

FWI 3.909 gears are 43 teeth ring 11 teeth pinion.


The only thing I can go by is the parts computer that is linked to Toyota. The one number came up, but the other said that it didn't exist. :confused:

[my034runner]

Hey Andries, maybe you can contact the people at JT's Diff's. As you have the most knowledge of what we're looking for. They seem to have a lot of gears.

Here's the link I found on TTORA: http://www.tacomaterritory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47362

[damaged110]

the front gears should be the same as a taco. they measured the same but i have not been able to try it yet. so if i can find a proper set of gears for the taco i am going to try and warranty a front diff from a 4-runner and see if they fit.. :rolleyes:

[my034runner]

the front gears should be the same as a taco. they measured the same but i have not been able to try it yet. so if i can find a proper set of gears for the taco i am going to try and warranty a front diff from a 4-runner and see if they fit.. :rolleyes:


I wonder who's 4Runner you're going to try to warranty?? :devil:

[bulldog]

A little more tech on the diffs of the 4Runner. Seems the front ring gear is actually slightly larger than the rear, wonder what the engineers were thinking :confused: See attachment.

ANyway it seems Allpro will get gears in first, will see how they work out. Mine is now shipped back and I will only follow up in the new year. Can only do one project at a time.

[bulldog]

From TTORA.

Apparently All Pro has a couple of sets of front gears (and rears), both 4.88 and 4.56. Not sure on pricing.

Also the rear uses the std 8" 3rd, with the different in # of splines on the pinion. WHich means to make it work currently you have to buy a different flange and have the holes drilled to work on the 4R (etc) driveshaft. This might change if somebody is making pinions specific for the 120 rear diffs. Just FYI to keep in mind.

I will only get start looking into the diff issue after I get some other stuff done to the 4RUnner first. Probably not before March or so next year. I might get something done sooner, but getting hold of another 3rd and front diff and have them work on those in the mean time.

[expat]

And from the FJ Forum...

Re: Regearing with larger tires

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I am going with the allpro solution which is a Factory Toyota Prado 120 456 Front gear setup and then Genuine is the only one that i have seen (not purchased) for the rear, if anyone knows of a different solution for the rear let me know. Allpro is taking names for the 456 upgrade kits, they are on the slow boat from Iceland. My reason is to take the rpm back to stock with a 35 inch tire. Cost is 499 for the front gear, the kit cost is TBD and the rear pricing is estimated to be 250 range, the install kit will be extra.

[my034runner]

Nice. Looks like we need to get on that list!!:iagree

[Jared]

Copied / Pasted from FJ forums from Terry at All-Pro. I thought it was a good summary:

Here are the current facts on re-gearing the FJ Cruiser:

FRONT DIFFERENTIAL
The front differential is an 8" mid pinion IFS that uses a gear not available through the common aftermarket. It is the same as the Non-US Toyota Prado front differential. The only current ratios available are 4.56 from Toyota OEM Japan and 4.88 from Mossiero in Italy. All Pro has 4.88 in stock, and 4.56 on the way in from Japan - 4 sets next week and 14 more in 3 weeks.
Front install kits are also not available from the common aftermarket. It uses the rear 86-95 V6 pinion bearings, but everything else is unique to the FJ/Prado. All Pro has gathered the parts together and can assemble a kit for you by special order, and have preassembled kits in the works. No solid spacers are available for the front differential
One last thing - there is a case break on the front differential. This means there are 2 different cases, or differential offsets: one that fits 3.73 and down, and the other that fits 3.91 and up. So if you have an Automatic with 3.73 gears and want to go to a 3.91, 4.56 or 4.88 ratio, you need an open diff from a stick shift wth the factory 3.91, or you can change to an aftermarket diff like an ARB and get yourself some extra teaction at the same time.

REAR DIFFERENTIAL
The rear end uses the same 8" gear as the 86-95 V6 Rear, and 95.5-07 Tacoma TRD E-Locker. Here's the catch, Toyota changed the pinion spline count from 27 to 30 when the Tacoma began. Now, the aftermarket gears that will fit in the FJ are ONLY made in 27 spline. Why not use the Prado rear like the front? The Prado is like the FJ80 series LandCruiser diff, 9.25", NOT 8", so it wont fit. NO aftermarket gear manufacturer currently makes a 30 spline 8" V6 gear set, but 4WP Genuine Gear is working on it, with probably 8-10 months wait. They will be manufactured in China.
So is it safe to use the older 27 spline V6 gears? Yes and No. The OEM FJ gears that are breaking are doing so at the tooth, not the pinion. There is NO DIFFERENCE in pinion tooth strength between the 27 & 30 spline gears, if one would break, so will the other. Guys in the mini trucks have been running 200:1 & lower gearing for years with success, and with 37"+ tires sizes, so as long as you buy a quality set of gears (Precision, Yukon) you should have no more problem with the 27 spline than with the 30's, because remember, its the teeth that are typically breaking, not the shaft at the spline.
So what do you need to do to make them work? Install them correctly with quality bearings, and we STRONGLY suggest using a solid spacer in the rear instead of a crush sleeve - $29 of cheap insurance - and a new pinion flange. The pinion flange must be 27 spline to match the gear, but none are currently available ready made through the aftermarket -YET. If you need to have gears now, you need to use a 1988 V6 4 Runner flange and drill the FJ flange pattern into the new flange. We are working with our Japanese importer to get blank flanges and have them custom machined to fit the FJ driveshaft pattern so it will be a bolt up, but this is probably a couple months out.
Install kits are simple, if you have an E-Locker equipped FJ, you simply buy a Tacoma E-Locker master install kit. If you have a non E-Locker rear, you need the 86-95 V6 install kit.

I hope that clears up the confusion on regearing the FJ - we did hours and hours of research both with tearing apart diffs in the shop & dozens of calls to Toyota to get these facts. The bottom line is you CAN re-gear your FJ, but some parts are not yet available ready made, still re-drilling a pinion flange is a small effort for a great reward. PM me if you have any questions, I'd be happy to explain anything thats still foggy.

Terry
All Pro Off Road

[expat]

That's funny Jared. I was just about to paste the same. (8 minutes later than you) Snap! LOL.

[Jared]

That's funny Jared. I was just about to paste the same. (8 minutes later than you) Snap! LOL.

When I read it, I thought... "I bet bulldog already cross-posted to 120... lemme check."

[bulldog]

When I read it, I thought... "I bet bulldog already cross-posted to 120... lemme check."

Well I did cover most of it from TTora few posts above anyway :P

The new year will be the time for me to get the ball rolling on this again. Hopefully we can get it sorted out correctly towards the end of Q1. I believe the success of this effort will be to make sure the install is done perfectly. I think the first few folsk will probably pay the most schooling fees and the ones that follow will benefit. WIth all the FJCs I think we will definitely have some more gear options pretty soon.

[Joel]

Allpro released pricing on their 4.56 gears...

http://www.allprooffroad.com/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=133

[expat]

Thanks for the heads-up Joel.

Why does everyone insist on ignoring the 4Runner in their marketing? Why are th