Shrockworks vs ARB

[eli23]

So after keeping a close eye on all of the forums for the past several months I am starting to get a little too excited about these two bumpers about to come out.

I know that no one has actually seen a production model of either bumper but I was wondering if anyone knew what the pro's and cons of each might be just from the pictures so far, discussions with shrockworks, and previous experience with ARB.
For example, I see that the shrockworks bumper will have shackle mounts on the front of the bumper, but i can not see any such mount on the ARB. Is this true or can I just not see them in the pictures.
And it looks to me that the shrockworks bumper sits a little lower then the ARB, but the ARB sticks out farther. It could just be the pictures i am looking at but i am not for sure.

Any other infomation such as quality, experience of manufacture, trailability, and opinons on looks would be helpful.

It is probably kinda early to start this discussion but like I said I am getting excited.

Elliott

[bulldog]

At the moment most of it will be speculation till we can see a final prototype of the ARB bumper. I believe the Shrockworks bumper will end up being very close to the prototype we have seen.

I believe the biggest difference between the 2 will be that the SW bumper is far more tucked in than the ARB bumper. This will be a good thing to improve approach angle and US conditions. The ARB will have more space to mount antennas and such as it has more top surface, don't know how much of an issue it will be in reality. The SW does have the shackle hangers positioned nicely upfront, where the ARB sits down below. The ARB seems to have plates that cover the bottom section, but we will have to see the final versions of both to make a good call on that. I believe both will have great workmanship, etc.

Pricing is still in the air as we don't know what type of bumper ARB will sell and for how much (they tend to get very pricey with the fog lights in tegrated), SW bumper is not finalized yet so no final pricing.

The one thing I do know is that we will have SW bumpers in the June (maybe July) timeframe, however we still don't know if we will have ARB bumpers and if we do when (or if anybody has an official update from ARB please post). SW only got onboard earlier this year and they will deliver, while ARB corp has been thinking about it for almost 3 years now (I wish ARB US can have more decision making power).

So lets see when the bumpers are out and the production versions are ready before making the final call. I however believe the SW will suite US conditions much more than the ARB.

[AlexJet]

I was talking to ARB last week about availability of the OME suspension parts (looks like I have to wait ~1-2 month for the front struts N140S); and I did asked about ARB bumper. I was told that ARB is not planning of releasing Sahara version now and this release will depend on demand from customers. They also told me that ARB approved their prototype and preparing for manufacturing Deluxe version. We should see the final product in the middle of July. That's all the information I was given by the phone. Unfortunately all my emails still not answered, even 2-3 month old.

[bulldog]

SInce some folks will be getting their ARBs soon and a lot have their SW bumpers already, let the discussions begin.

Alexjet retro fitted a Prado ARB bumper to his 4R here
http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=761

Here is the SW discussion thread
http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=342&page=43&pp=20

Below a few pics for you own perusal
Front
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l183/Aviator_1/ARB%20Bumper/ARB-15-1.jpg

http://joelrasmus.com/gallery/g2data/albums/rides/t4r/frontbumper/DSC_2097.JPG

Side
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l183/Aviator_1/ARB%20Bumper/ARB-13.jpg

http://joelrasmus.com/gallery/g2data/albums/rides/t4r/frontbumper/DSC_2099.JPG

Will have to see what the final ARB deluxe bumper for the 4R looks like.

Once we can get verified weights for the ARB deluxe bumper we can add this as well for additional info.

[Joel]

I see a clear winner here! :flip2:

[bulldog]

I see a clear winner here! :flip2:
Let's wait till we see when the 4R ARB bumpers are on. ALso the final stats on each. Then it will be easier for folks to see which one suites there needs the best.

[AlexJet]

This picture is more comparable to Joel:

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l183/Aviator_1/ARB%20Bumper/ARB-15-1.jpg

[shrockworks]

Both of you guys put a tape measure from the center of the bumper to the grill to see how far they stick out. I've never seen and ARB and I'm curious of the difference.

Jim

[Joel]

4" (~10cm) from directly below the bottom grill section to the front of the bumper.

[AlexJet]

ARB has 6" from the grille to the front edge of the bumper.

[my034runner]

I'm liking the 4" better. Oh wait, of course I do, I've already got one- and it's going on Sunday.!! :bigok: :iagree

[my034runner]

The front end shots of each, Alex's looks better right now, but only because he has every light on the planet on there, those just make it look mean.

But wait until we fit some lights on ours, oh yeah baby!!!! :bigok:

[AlexJet]

The front end shots of each, Alex's looks better right now, but only because he has every light on the planet on there, those just make it look mean.

But wait until we fit some lights on ours, oh yeah baby!!!! :bigok:

I'm trying to fit some more :lol:
By the way you should see me in expedition gear with roof rack and 4 lights there.

I won an award in August for being most gadget truck in Canada. :cool1:

[my034runner]

I'm trying to fit some more :lol:
By the way you should see me in expedition gear with roof rack and 4 lights there.

I won an award in August for being most gadget truck in Canada. :cool1:


Post up the winning photo!! :iagree

[onfly]

Question?

Is the Shrockworks Bumper Air Bag Approved??
Just wondering.

Juan

[Dealmaker]

the airbag sensors (decelerometers) are on the front crossmember of the frame and not the bumper. The technology makes the bumper issue irrelevant from my understanding.

Question?

Is the Shrockworks Bumper Air Bag Approved??
Just wondering.

Juan

[onfly]

the airbag sensors (decelerometers) are on the front crossmember of the frame and not the bumper. The technology makes the bumper issue irrelevant from my understanding.


Im very aware where all my AIRBAG sensors are located, and also familiar with conditions on which they would trigger. Both bumpers mount fairly similiar. This may not be an issue with most. But, for myself, I feel more confident knowing that (ARB) has spent time and money on crash testing , thats all . No downing the Shrockworks bumper by any sort. In fact I had a hard time choosing between the two. In the end i went with ARB cause I prefer the way it looks and i got a pretty good deal$ :) too!

my2cents

Juan

[Vegas Runner]

Im very aware where all my AIRBAG sensors are located, and also familiar with conditions on which they would trigger. Both bumpers mount fairly similiar. This may not be an issue with most. But, for myself, I feel more confident knowing that (ARB) has spent time and money on crash testing , thats all . No downing the Shrockworks bumper by any sort. In fact I had a hard time choosing between the two. In the end i went with ARB cause I prefer the way it looks and i got a pretty good deal$ :) too!

my2cents

Juan

I have not heard of ARBs crash testing before this. Do you have any information on this? I have not seen any published reports.

[AlexJet]

I have not heard of ARBs crash testing before this. Do you have any information on this? I have not seen any published reports.

ARB actually did some crash test back in Australia for their steel bumpers. I've seen couple reports on internet and read them in magazines. I was impressed on efforts they put in. I think they've done it to get an approval from local Ministry of Transportation to make them legal on the roads. I also hope this might help resolve the issues here in North America if we ever will get any; I hope that we don't.

[bulldog]

As to the airbiag issue, approved by who? As far as I know neither DOT nor IIHS have crash tested the ARB bumper. Nor has ARB crash tested a 4Runner.

Carefully look at both the ARB and SW front bunmper mounts and you will see that both discard the crush cans and replace them with solid mounting tabs.

Airbag testing is irrelevant for liability issues unless it has been tested by an US authority. The constuction shows that neither bumper retained the stock crush cans or even sumilated the setup.

Getting an airbag to deploy is irrelevant if the calibration does not stay intact. I have not seen tests done by ARB on the 4R nor have I seen them do the tests that the IIHS do with dummies adn measuring injury impact afterwards. The reason is pretty simple and that is cost.

So I will go back to approved by whom? The 4R is not sold in Oz so I seriously doubt that it wil get the Oz government approval either.

Just something to think about.

[AlexJet]

ARB never tested 4Runner or LandCruiser 120 there, but they did test LandCruiser 100. Yes, those tests were done by ARB itself, not DOT or IIHS. I've seen those test results and they seems to be impressive. Steel bumper will never make the same effect as stock plastic. Modern plastic bumpers are made to be crushed absorbing the impact. ARB or Shrockworks are designed to withstand off-road abuse and do not break. That’s why we buying them and using them off-road.

[Carl44]

I have searched the forums and aside from one catastrophic ARB failure, everyone seems to like the Shrockworks a lot. Their sliders look good also.

Any opinions on these 2 bumpers?

[bulldog]

I have searched the forums and aside from one catastrophic ARB failure, everyone seems to like the Shrockworks a lot. Their sliders look good also.

Any opinions on these 2 bumpers?

Merged your thread with the existing one. sometimes a little search can help you a lot (and save us time ;) )


As to the question, short summary since the ARB bumper is out.

SW advantages:

1) SW bumper has a shorter overhang and much more aggressive approach angle, also much more clearance by the tires.
2) SW bumper is adjustable for height to fit body lift later. SW 2.0 bumper now has a check bolt to prevent winching issues found on the first version. They also offer new brackets for body lifts for a small fee. With the ARB you will have to make your own if you ever plan ion a body lift.
3) SW bumper has towing points on the bumper that are accessible, does not rely on the factory towing loops way down like ARB.
4) SW can be ordered without hoops and a number of other options. ARB offers very few options.
5) SW bumper is a bit lighter than the ARB, although both are heavy and will tax the stock suspension.
6) SW bumper allows you to fit the winch after the bumper is installed, no need to pull the whole thing out. It also has the solenoid box hidden, as well as plenty of access to the winch once the hood is lifted for maintenance purposes.
7) Allows for generic fog lights to be fitted, ARB requires modification or expensive fog light kit.
8) SW bumper comes with splash plates, that covers the area by the wheels. Looks good, but more important protects water bottle and air intake. Last I heard ARB no longer ships the splash plates and you have to make it or get a fabber.
9) SW bumpers are made in the USA, and they stepped up to the plate to make one for 4Runner while ARB wasn't interested for a long time. SW took our design criteria

ARB advantages:
1) Many dealers, so shipping might be easier. Also can have variable pricing.
2) If the bumpers are in stock the ship time can be a lo shorter, SW typically makes to order so expect longer lead times.
3) Makes 03-05 model bumper and 06+. So should probably fit slightly better on later models. SW uses the same bumper for all years, not really that much of an issue.
4) ARB claims airbag compatibility. The 4Runner uses accelerometers for sensors, so both bumpers will work with airbags in a big accident. Both bumpers can cause the airbag timing to be slightly different that OEM spec, although the extra protection up front will more than likely compensate for that.

Last pricing I saw was SW $979, ARB 03-05 $1075 and ARB 06+ $1185.

IMHO there is a clear winner and that is the SW. The features were designed from our initial input and feedback after the first batch. Designed fro US conditions and the features and specs show it.

ARB simply adapted the Prado bumper to fit on the 4Runner and was designed to comply with Oz regulations and requirements. While being a very good bumper it simply can't hold up to the SW for US needs.

[Carl44]

Thanks for tolerating my search-incompetence. It definitely looks like the SW gets the win. The airbag issue is a bit of a concern, I suppose.

[my034runner]

:iagree :iagree

[toyota alec]

Thanks for tolerating my search-incompetence. It definitely looks like the SW gets the win. The airbag issue is a bit of a concern, I suppose.

with the shrockworks bumper you don't need the airbag seehttp://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2723&highlight=bumper+crash

[1rook]

shrock just added one more to their customer base

[my034runner]

Congrats!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rockon:

[AlexJet]

Merged your thread with the existing one. sometimes a little search can help you a lot (and save us time ;) )


As to the question, short summary since the ARB bumper is out.

SW advantages:

1) SW bumper has a shorter overhang and much more aggressive approach angle, also much more clearance by the tires.
2) SW bumper is adjustable for height to fit body lift later. SW 2.0 bumper now has a check bolt to prevent winching issues found on the first version. They also offer new brackets for body lifts for a small fee. With the ARB you will have to make your own if you ever plan ion a body lift.
3) SW bumper has towing points on the bumper that are accessible, does not rely on the factory towing loops way down like ARB.
4) SW can be ordered without hoops and a number of other options. ARB offers very few options.
5) SW bumper is a bit lighter than the ARB, although both are heavy and will tax the stock suspension.
6) SW bumper allows you to fit the winch after the bumper is installed, no need to pull the whole thing out. It also has the solenoid box hidden, as well as plenty of access to the winch once the hood is lifted for maintenance purposes.
7) Allows for generic fog lights to be fitted, ARB requires modification or expensive fog light kit.
8) SW bumper comes with splash plates, that covers the area by the wheels. Looks good, but more important protects water bottle and air intake. Last I heard ARB no longer ships the splash plates and you have to make it or get a fabber.
9) SW bumpers are made in the USA, and they stepped up to the plate to make one for 4Runner while ARB wasn't interested for a long time. SW took our design criteria

ARB advantages:
1) Many dealers, so shipping might be easier. Also can have variable pricing.
2) If the bumpers are in stock the ship time can be a lo shorter, SW typically makes to order so expect longer lead times.
3) Makes 03-05 model bumper and 06+. So should probably fit slightly better on later models. SW uses the same bumper for all years, not really that much of an issue.
4) ARB claims airbag compatibility. The 4Runner uses accelerometers for sensors, so both bumpers will work with airbags in a big accident. Both bumpers can cause the airbag timing to be slightly different that OEM spec, although the extra protection up front will more than likely compensate for that.

Last pricing I saw was SW $979, ARB 03-05 $1075 and ARB 06+ $1185.

IMHO there is a clear winner and that is the SW. The features were designed from our initial input and feedback after the first batch. Designed fro US conditions and the features and specs show it.

ARB simply adapted the Prado bumper to fit on the 4Runner and was designed to comply with Oz regulations and requirements. While being a very good bumper it simply can't hold up to the SW for US needs.

I have ARB, so a few side notes:
#6. ARB allows to put winch without removing it. Done myself.
#7. Can be installed any 4" lights such as PIAA510 with fabing small U shape bracket.
#8. Splash guards can be made, but complicated bends. I have a set for sale.

[expat]

shrock just added one more to their customer base


Right on!:bigok:

[Duc Hunter]

So I am Shrock's Crash Test Dummy Sales Rep? I want a commision for my work. LOL! They are great guys, especially Jim. I am glad to help them out!

[azrunner]

I went with the arb since I liked the looks and didnt want to wait 4 + months
Got the Bumper for 1082 $ and was on within a week of ordering.
Although Shrock works is awesome .




http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk105/teampwr2/IMG_1481.jpg

[Cash Money]

any chance you could post some more pictures of it on your rig?

[azrunner]

Here are the Two Bumpers ARB + Shrock Works .
They Are Both Made for the 4 Runner and Do The same thing ..Its Just a Matter Of What Your personal preferance is .I chose Not to wait For Shrock Works And Personally Like ARB Although the Shrock Works Is AWESOME .

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk105/teampwr2/PICT0001.jpg

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk105/teampwr2/d_37.jpg

[4Runner_Russ]

those pictures confirm, i really like the ARB. :cool1:

[Cash Money]

Man those are both really pretty :rockon:

[Grillfish]

I think the SW bumper you can adjust for a body lift. I don't know if ARB can or custom plates will need to be made to account for a body lift.

I had an ARB on my Nissan and I had to make custom adapters to match up my bumper with the BL.

Just something to think about if you plan to go the BL route one day.

[4Runner_Russ]

I think the SW bumper you can adjust for a body lift. I don't know if ARB can or custom plates will need to be made to account for a body lift.

I had an ARB on my Nissan and I had to make custom adapters to match up my bumper with the BL.

Just something to think about if you plan to go the BL route one day.

Good point. Shrockworks sells a kit for those with bodylifts.

[expat]

SW sells a kit now for BL? What do they include? When I bought mine it was just extra holes in the mounting brackets to move the bumper up with the BL increase in height.

[bulldog]

SW sells a kit now for BL? What do they include? When I bought mine it was just extra holes in the mounting brackets to move the bumper up with the BL increase in height.

Might be worthwhile for folks looking for a new bumper to contact them. Maybe they have a special bracket for BL and a lower skid to fit.

The old brackets was easy to slide the bumper up the mounting holes for BL's, just the lower skid had to be ordered for a BL or not.

[Roams001]

They don't do the different skid anymore ("too many possibilities for shipping error"), but they do have a different bracket for a larger BL (1 - 1.5").

[expat]

They don't do the different skid anymore ("too many possibilities for shipping error"), but they do have a different bracket for a larger BL (1 - 1.5").

So, they don't have a skid that fits the BL any longer? Strange - seemed easy to me re shipping - order a BL version bumper and get the BL skid. Hmmm:confused:

[azrunner]

Both Manufacters Make it so If you Have a body lift you can use their products.

[bulldog]

They don't do the different skid anymore ("too many possibilities for shipping error"), but they do have a different bracket for a larger BL (1 - 1.5").

Is it bracket for the skid so it works, or is it the bumper mount brackets?

Both Manufacters Make it so If you Have a body lift you can use their products.

I'm more familar with the SW adn the mount between the bracket and bumper allows for adjustment for body lifts.

I was not aware that ARB now has the same function as one member here had to modify his ARB mounting system to work with a BL. Did ARB change their mount to accommodate BLs now? If so do you know how it works?

On another topic we probably will need to move the last number of posts to a bumper discussion as it is way off topic for the thread starter.

[07 Elephant]

I have an arb and a 1/2 inch bl. I didn't have any problems moving up further after the bl. It can go up more but I don't know how much. I don't think I'd have to have a special bracket to move it up an inch or so more though as I was able to move it high enough to touch the fenders when I was fitting it after the bl.
If I had a 1.5 inch bl maybe I'd run into a problem but as I see it now I don't understand why one would need to mofify it to fit it w/ a larger bl.

my :2cents :2cents

[expat]

So does the ARB bolt holes come as elongated holes so you can slide the bumper up and down? That's the only way I can imagine being able to adjust the bar up or down without having multiple holes like the SW.

[07 Elephant]

yes. exactly. both the frame mounting...which is separate from the bumper itself is adjustable up and down and once the bumper is mounted it too is adjustable up and down iirc.

[bulldog]

1/2" Body lift I see with the ARB, but larger might be a problem.

See Yabedude's thread about what he had to do with a 1.5" body lift to make the ARB work.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2534

That is unless they have changed the mounting system on the ARB.

[07 Elephant]

Yea I saw him post that. I didn't understand at the time nor now why it was necessary. But I haven't tried. I have a 1/2 bl and it works for me. Any way...
Buy shrockworks products. They're made in Texas! :rockon:

[bulldog]

Buy shrockworks products. They're made in Texas! :rockon:

But ARB is made in Oz, and we like Ozzies :aussie: :jester: :wavey:

[azrunner]

Designed fro US conditions and the features and specs show it.

ARB While being a very good bumper it simply can't hold up to the SW for US needs.

Im Not trying to be an ass But ....Re -read your statment then Please Justify your comment... "Simply Cannot hold up to the US Needs "
What Is so Special about Our US Needs ???

What Goes on in the US that Doesnt go on in other places around the world ...The Bumpers are made of Steel ....Steel is Steel And I dont understand What Goes on in the US Market that Would Make a differance to Steel Bumpers That Are Virtually Identical.
:eek:

[bulldog]

Im Not trying to be an ass But ....Re -read your statment then Please Justify your comment... "Simply Cannot hold up to the US Needs "
What Is so Special about Our US Needs ???

What Goes on in the US that Doesnt go on in other places around the world ...The Bumpers are made of Steel ....Steel is Steel And I dont understand What Goes on in the US Market that Would Make a differance to Steel Bumpers That Are Virtually Identical.
:eek:

I think I covered the differences in quite a bit fo detail in a previous post, but just for a recap.

In the US we tend to do far more rocky trails than in Oz and most other places. Therefor the general approach angle, wheel approach angle and overhang of the bumper is crucial. You will notice the SW is substantially better in that department.

Also the SW allows for the fitment of larger tires without rubbing. It is easier to fit a BL with the SW and it has more tire clearance.

The SW also has tow points that are on the bumper and easily accessible, making recover easier in terrain where rocks might obscure the lower OE points.

I'm not saying the ARB is bad or anything, I just think the SW offers features that are very useful for a lot of US wheelers. A number of items where specifically put on the SW bumper on our requirement request, and the 2nd generations SW bumpers are really cool as they have fixed some the issues we had to deal with on the first generation. Teh biggest issue on SW bumpers seems to be very long lead times these days.

The ARB has a number of nice features as well, which I believe I have also mentioned already. SO it is really up to folks to decide which ones suite their needs the best.

SO for your reading pleasure:
http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showpost.php?p=40513&postcount=23

See if these points need updating.

[AlexJet]

Also the SW allows for the fitment of larger tires without rubbing. It is easier to fit a BL with the SW and it has more tire clearance.

Andries, as owner of ARB bumper I would like to mentioned that ARB offers plenty of tire room. It's allo to space between my ARB and 35" tires and it potentially clear ~39-40" without any issues, but to do so, you'd need to refab fenders, hood, firewall etc. What I'm saying is that there is no tire issue with ARB.

As of the others key points, there are some advantages and disadvantages of both designs, so as Andries already mentioned its mainly your preferences.
I'd do some things different on ARB and I can see "bad" points in SW as well.

BTW, features I like in my ARB: clean "OEM style" design, cool turn signals and fog lights, bumper designed to allow air flow to\the radiator, good winch access, flash fairlead mount, solid mountings, large front portion can be used as a step or help prevent hood damage when going through the bush,...

[ToyFamily]

Andries, as owner of ARB bumper I would like to mentioned that ARB offers plenty of tire room. It's allo to space between my ARB and 35" tires and it potentially clear ~39-40" without any issues, but to do so, you'd need to refab fenders, hood, firewall etc. What I'm saying is that there is no tire issue with ARB.

As of the others key points, there are some advantages and disadvantages of both designs, so as Andries already mentioned its mainly your preferences.
I'd do some things different on ARB and I can see "bad" points in SW as well.

BTW, features I like in my ARB: clean "OEM style" design, cool turn signals and fog lights, bumper designed to allow air flow to\the radiator, good winch access, flash fairlead mount, solid mountings, large front portion can be used as a step or help prevent hood damage when going through the bush,...

Not calling you out but I am curious to what the "bad" points are in the SW design, ones always learning. I tried to implement as many advantages as possible into the design from my competition and cometition vehicle fabrication experience. It is also difficult to make everything as desired as the perameters can't all be like you'd want them due to the platform. Let me tell you it is alot easier when your building the whole vehicle from scratch for a specific purpose.
Having not picked apart the ARB in person, I have only seen one on an FJ but the SW bumper is as tight as I could get it around the winch and into the vehicle for approach. Same goes for the wing up sweep to allow you to come at an obsticle at an angle to contact it with your tire, not bumper. The SW bumper is also 3/16" steel to improve the longevity of the surfaces over time in the case of contact with rocks.

hope some of this helps shine light,

Nick

[AlexJet]

Not calling you out but I am curious to what the "bad" points are in the SW design, ones always learning. I tried to implement as many advantages as possible into the design from my competition and cometition vehicle fabrication experience. It is also difficult to make everything as desired as the perameters can't all be like you'd want them due to the platform. Let me tell you it is alot easier when your building the whole vehicle from scratch for a specific purpose.
Having not picked apart the ARB in person, I have only seen one on an FJ but the SW bumper is as tight as I could get it around the winch and into the vehicle for approach. Same goes for the wing up sweep to allow you to come at an obsticle at an angle to contact it with your tire, not bumper. The SW bumper is also 3/16" steel to improve the longevity of the surfaces over time in the case of contact with rocks.

hope some of this helps shine light,

Nick

Nick,
What I'm saying is my personal point of view. And as I mentioned and which agrees with your statement as well, there is no perfect solution. You have advantages in both systems.
I like SW design as well, but what I don't like or like more in ARB are: lack of SS or Chrome single hoop as ARB Sahara has, tilt forward of the hoops (I know why you've done it, so no problem with technical point, jsut styling), lack of air vents for the radiator, if steel rope fairlead used it sticks too much out.
Please get me write I like some elements in SW over the ARB as well: slim fit, better approach angle, ventilated skid plate, PIAA lights.
If you asked me what to improve, I'd say add some styling, it's plain. For me when truck is DD as well as trail rig, style is important. As of the other things its a great product and I respect and apprecciate all your efforts. If I would be buying a new bumper here and you would be able to customize it, I'd consider this product.

[AlexJet]

Not calling you out but I am curious to what the "bad" points are in the SW design, ones always learning. I tried to implement as many advantages as possible into the design from my competition and cometition vehicle fabrication experience. It is also difficult to make everything as desired as the perameters can't all be like you'd want them due to the platform. Let me tell you it is alot easier when your building the whole vehicle from scratch for a specific purpose.
Having not picked apart the ARB in person, I have only seen one on an FJ but the SW bumper is as tight as I could get it around the winch and into the vehicle for approach. Same goes for the wing up sweep to allow you to come at an obsticle at an angle to contact it with your tire, not bumper. The SW bumper is also 3/16" steel to improve the longevity of the surfaces over time in the case of contact with rocks.

hope some of this helps shine light,

Nick

Nick,
What I'm saying is my personal point of view. And as I mentioned and which agrees with your statement as well, there is no perfect solution. You have advantages in both systems.
I like SW design as well, but what I don't like or like more in ARB are: lack of SS or Chrome single hoop as ARB Sahara has, tilt forward of the hoops (I know why you've done it, so no problem with technical point, jsut styling), lack of air vents for the radiator, if steel rope fairlead used it sticks too much out.
Please get me write I like some elements in SW over the ARB as well: slim fit, better approach angle, ventilated skid plate, PIAA lights.
If you asked me what to improve, I'd say add some styling, it's plain. For me when truck is DD as well as trail rig, style is important. As of the other things its a great product and I respect and apprecciate all your efforts.

[ToyFamily]

Just so your clear I am not insulted or trying to justify anything, just seeing what you think and giving some insight to what I was thinking in design. I appreciate your comments. I too think the styling is important as well as function. I'd have liked to "trim the fat" but there was a lot of low hanging "junk" behind the bumper which prevented that. I originally had the tube leaning rearward but as you know the grill comes up with the hood. I contemplated trying to make you guys remove the grill from the hood but it was adding to the complication which would add to the price. (I would have liked to do it if it were mine) For this reason I like the 3rd gen 4runner/taco bumper, it is very tight, even the tubing.


Nick

[Jeremy]

Nick,

For my .02, love your bumper I just neet the $ these days. Have you guys considered building a rear tire carrier as well?

[ToyFamily]

Shrockworks isn't going to, Jim doesn't want to deal with it. I have thought about it on my own to help out the Toy crowd.


Nick