So now that OW is out of the question...

[xonetruthcrewx]

What route would you go?

Yeah, I'm new here but I have been in this game for a while. About 4 years back I screwed up and sold my fully built, double locked 3rd Gen. Should have never done that. Anyways..... 4 years later and I picked another one up. 2005 V6 SR5. Bought it from a friend who took excellent care of it. 84k on it and its ready to be built.

So, its time to bust. On my 3rd Gen I ran the Sonoran Steel 1.2 system and it was great! Searched a bit here for people running th SS system, but nothing. Why not? Cause as of now, thats the route Im leaning towards.

It seems that most run coilovers. Good stuff, but not really the way I want to go. I am more of a expedition style, in the rocks type of guy. Yeah, hauling ass through the desert is good times, but thats not really where i'm going here.

So lets hear those opinions.

And for good measure... One of the old, and one of the new.

Old...



New...



All thats been done to the new as of now... Removed the mud flaps, running boards, pin striping, big deflector, front plate, and badges. I then added the mandatory stickers, put the basket on, and tinted the front windows. Much more to come!

[tweakeraz]

When did they come out with that system?

I know a couple years back when I went with Icon stuff, I looked to see what everyone had to offer....Icon, OME, Toytec, Camburg, total chaos seemed to be the main players. I know I checked out Sonoran Steel a few times and don't recall seeing anything for our rigs. They seem to put together a few nice 3rd gen kits though.

If it is recent, might not be a bad idea to announce it's available. With so many preferences by people, they might grab the attention of enough individuals.

However, I saw that they are local. That might explain why I have seen so many lifted 4th gens lately.

Don't forget to provide feedback if you decide to go that route. Might help others in the future.

[Mikestang]

The shot of the old, is that the v-gap in last chance canyon?

[bigrupp]

IIRC there are some members on T4R that are running SS 1.2 on their rigs. Pretty sure they all love it.

Sent from the Far Side

[xonetruthcrewx]

Originally Posted by Mikestang

The shot of the old, is that the v-gap in last chance canyon?

Yes it is. Love the V-Notch!

[norseman]

Its my understanding that OW is not out of the question. According to this post you can still get a OW set-up (aka Radflo Suspension Technologies) from Radflo.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...20&postcount=2

http://www.radflo.com

You just need to ask for the OW HD 2.5 CO spec. From what I gather Mark and Andries just fine tuned the Radflos for a T4R purposes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also it wouldn't hurt to PM expat or bulldog for clarification. Just my two cents.

[chayos00]

Originally Posted by norseman

Its my understanding that OW is not out of the question. According to this post you can still get a OW set-up (aka Radflo Suspension Technologies) from Radflo.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...20&postcount=2

http://www.radflo.com

You just need to ask for the OW HD 2.5 CO spec. From what I gather Mark and Andries just fine tuned the Radflos for a T4R purposes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also it wouldn't hurt to PM expat or bulldog for clarification. Just my two cents.

I understood the same thing from them, I will be sure to stick to the Radflo guys in the future if I need anything specific for my suspension.

[xonetruthcrewx]

Originally Posted by norseman

Its my understanding that OW is not out of the question. According to this post you can still get a OW set-up (aka Radflo Suspension Technologies) from Radflo.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...20&postcount=2

http://www.radflo.com

You just need to ask for the OW HD 2.5 CO spec. From what I gather Mark and Andries just fine tuned the Radflos for a T4R purposes. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Also it wouldn't hurt to PM expat or bulldog for clarification. Just my two cents.

Well, maybe that is the case. Regardless, the OW setup was never at the top of my list. This was more of a 'now that it is not a click and buy' option, what would you go with. Just seems that everyone is on the OW boat here. Not that that is a bad thing, just sayin.

Only way I would go coilovers, is if I went extended travel with UCAs. And i just dont want to. Not what Im going for in my build.

[bulldog]

If you were happy with the SS setup on the 3rd Gen, you may just want to look at the Bilstein shocks on the 4th Gen.

What may help is to see what you have planned for the 4Runner in the future. Bilstein has an adjustable shock on the front that allows you to just set the preload on the stock coil for more ride height. However it is likely not the best choice if you plan a bumper and other heavy goodies.

[Teotwaki]

Originally Posted by xonetruthcrewx

It seems that most run coilovers. Good stuff, but not really the way I want to go. I am more of a expedition style, in the rocks type of guy. Yeah, hauling ass through the desert is good times, but thats not really where i'm going here.

I wanted to ask why coilovers are incompatible with expeditions yet are so casually condemned as best suited for hauling ass through the desert?

There is a pretty good definition of vehicular expeditions that makes no mention of suspension requirements:

1. Primary purpose: Exploration in support of geographic, scientific or humanitarian endeavors.
2. Duration: Typically several weeks to many years.
3. Logistics: Detailed planning is required for environmental, geographic and geopolitical contingencies.
4. Route Finding: Navigation can be highly complicated, and many areas may have no mapping detail available, requiring extensive research and/or support from the local population.
5. Camping: Accommodations will range from remote camping to hostels due to weather conditions, security concerns or duration of travel. There also may be limited camping available, requiring use of local accommodations, hostels, military and church grounds, etc.
6. International Borders: Often includes crossing of multiple international borders.
7. Risk: Moderate to severe risk to personnel and equipment due to security issues or the extreme remoteness and difficulty of the journey.

Basically, everyone here including me goes on camping trips and nod and wink when we call them "expeditions". Harmless fun. I've only been on non-vehicular expeditions.

For going "in the rocks" I thought that a solid axle was the king of articulation so are you going SAS on the 4th gen as a number of folks here have done? Again, what does rock crawling have to do with expedition or overland driving styles?

Originally Posted by xonetruthcrewx

-------------------------------------- Just seems that everyone is on the OW boat here. Not that that is a bad thing, just sayin. --------------

Name another forum dedicated to your ride that offers expertly tuned offroad suspension by guys that actually wheel the vehicle? On top of that one of the key guys will post in this thread and still give you calm and honest opinions about what you should do, no hidden agendas, bias, or sales pitch. The "OW boat" isn't filled with mindless sycophants. Just sayin......

[oljedi1950]

Originally Posted by Teotwaki

I wanted to ask why coilovers are incompatible with expeditions yet are so casually condemned as best suited for hauling ass through the desert?

There is a pretty good definition of vehicular expeditions that makes no mention of suspension requirements:

1. Primary purpose: Exploration in support of geographic, scientific or humanitarian endeavors.
2. Duration: Typically several weeks to many years.
3. Logistics: Detailed planning is required for environmental, geographic and geopolitical contingencies.
4. Route Finding: Navigation can be highly complicated, and many areas may have no mapping detail available, requiring extensive research and/or support from the local population.
5. Camping: Accommodations will range from remote camping to hostels due to weather conditions, security concerns or duration of travel. There also may be limited camping available, requiring use of local accommodations, hostels, military and church grounds, etc.
6. International Borders: Often includes crossing of multiple international borders.
7. Risk: Moderate to severe risk to personnel and equipment due to security issues or the extreme remoteness and difficulty of the journey.

Basically, everyone here including me goes on camping trips and nod and wink when we call them "expeditions". Harmless fun. I've only been on non-vehicular expeditions.

For going "in the rocks" I thought that a solid axle was the king of articulation so are you going SAS on the 4th gen as a number of folks here have done? Again, what does rock crawling have to do with expedition or overland driving styles?



Name another forum dedicated to your ride that offers expertly tuned offroad suspension by guys that actually wheel the vehicle? On top of that one of the key guys will post in this thread and still give you calm and honest opinions about what you should do, no hidden agendas, bias, or sales pitch. The "OW boat" isn't filled with mindless sycophants. Just sayin......

Well said sir, most honest forum out here !!

[shabaka]

Seeing as how the vehicle comes with coilovers OEM from the factory
I really don't see where there would be an issue in running aftermarket coilovers
Regardless if they are adjustable or not
Besides, a little adjustment would be well suited to changing terrain and payloads
Point is... Don't rule out all the fancy looking, pretty color shocks just because of a marketing term

[xonetruthcrewx]

I think you all are misreading what Im trying to say. Or maybe I suck at writing down what I want to say...

Nothing at all wrong with coilovers. Based on what you want to do with a vehicle, and how much you want to spend on your suspension setting it up for that, there are your choices.

When I say Coilovers = Hauling ass through the desert, here is what I mean. For that type of driving, you typically want some sort of extended travel. Theres your aftermarket COs and UCAs. You also want a larger diameter piston and sometimes even external resivours. Why? To cycle more oil and keep things cool and working. That type of setup is always more expensive.

Now.... If you are not going to use your rig in this fashion, why spend the extra money to get these parts? At the same time... Will they work as good as anything else when going 'expo' style? Of course. Will they work as good as the rest in the rocks? Absolutely. So unless you just want to 'throw money away' (which I believe is what we are all doing here), why go beyond what you actually need and will use. Right?

And as far as the 'OW Boat' comment, you guys apparently took that the wrong way. In no way was it meant in a negative way. It is a top notch setup with a good amount of research into it. I was simply stating that the folks on this forum seem to prefer OW over the rest. All forums are typically that way.

[MCL68]

Originally Posted by xonetruthcrewx

And as far as the 'OW Boat' comment, you guys apparently took that the wrong way. In no way was it meant in a negative way. It is a top notch setup with a good amount of research into it. I was simply stating that the folks on this forum seem to prefer OW over the rest. All forums are typically that way.

Every forum has their FANBOY's for certain brands and are loyal to them.

What makes OW different, is that OW has more exposure on this forum since the owners, Andries - Bulldog (Toyota120 founder) and Mark - Expat ("OG" 120 forum Veteran) are always here to answer any inquiries regarding installation and sales for the OW suspension and product line.

Plus they personally did the R&D for the suspension systems and have an excellent customer/product support base.

[Teampez]

Originally Posted by MCL_68

Every forum has their FANBOY's for certain brands and are loyal to them.

Very true, and on some forums you get your hand slapped if you post of the competition. OW is/was not, the only place to buy Radflo.

Plus they personally did the R&D for the suspension systems and have an excellent customer/product support base.

I could be wrong here, but Im sure that Radflo, did sell these kits for our rigs long before OW started promoting them, and Id guess that the R&D was already done, before Radflo started selling them to the public.

Just check other forums/vendors, Im sure if you want Radflo, you will find someone that sells it.

[Teotwaki]

Originally Posted by xonetruthcrewx

I think you all are misreading what Im trying to say. Or maybe I suck at writing down what I want to say...

Nothing at all wrong with coilovers. Based on what you want to do with a vehicle, and how much you want to spend on your suspension setting it up for that, there are your choices.

When I say Coilovers = Hauling ass through the desert, here is what I mean. For that type of driving, you typically want some sort of extended travel. Theres your aftermarket COs and UCAs. You also want a larger diameter piston and sometimes even external resivours. Why? To cycle more oil and keep things cool and working. That type of setup is always more expensive.

Now.... If you are not going to use your rig in this fashion, why spend the extra money to get these parts? At the same time... Will they work as good as anything else when going 'expo' style? Of course. Will they work as good as the rest in the rocks? Absolutely. So unless you just want to 'throw money away' (which I believe is what we are all doing here), why go beyond what you actually need and will use. Right?

And as far as the 'OW Boat' comment, you guys apparently took that the wrong way. In no way was it meant in a negative way. It is a top notch setup with a good amount of research into it. I was simply stating that the folks on this forum seem to prefer OW over the rest. All forums are typically that way.

We are all capable of poor writing skills. Besides, we probably don't give a new member as much slack as we should, but this forum is extremely civil compared to many.

So on topic.

I do a lot of overlanding and the longest time frame was 9 days so still not an "expedition". I do go over all sorts of terrain but will not risk my vehicle on anything really dicey because the 4Runner is a daily driver too. I am interested in getting safely from A to B and not being King of the Hammers. I want a decent ride when hauling family on pavement especially because the out of state trips involve long drives on pavement to the launch point. I also wanted better load handling capability, better offroad manners and some extra ground clearance. Sticking with coilovers made things easy because they are bolt in. The 2.5" OW setup offered long life, rebuildability, better handling, some extra travel and load handling. On top of that it is valved for the 4Runner 4th gen and not for a catch all situation such as a Bilstein, Monroe or other shock may have.

To me the suspension comes before sliders, bumpers, baskets and all of the other choices. I've tried other brands included the Bilstein-based Downey brand and OW is light years better.

What would help the discussion would be more detailed examples of what sort of driving you will actually do, how much you will carry and so on.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Teampez

Every forum has their FANBOY's for certain brands and are loyal to them.

Very true, and on some forums you get your hand slapped if you post of the competition. OW is/was not, the only place to buy Radflo.

Plus they personally did the R&D for the suspension systems and have an excellent customer/product support base.

I could be wrong here, but Im sure that Radflo, did sell these kits for our rigs long before OW started promoting them, and Id guess that the R&D was already done, before Radflo started selling them to the public.

Just check other forums/vendors, Im sure if you want Radflo, you will find someone that sells it.

Your lies and misinformation are getting very old & tiring. The only reason why you get wrist slapped here are because of your lies and trying to spread misinformation.

Yes, Radflo can be had from many places including directly from Radflo.

No, Radflo did not sell these kits long before OW, in fact OW was to first to introduce Radflo based kits for this platform. We made significant changes to the base Radflo elements and also combined it to make a kit. In fact Radflo does not sell a full kit for these platforms today.

So as usual you are wrong. Secondly your trolling on this topic is getting really old, as you have been corrected many times on this topic and well know the facts, but insist on spreading misinformation under the "I could be wrong".


And for that I thank you; as you are the winner of the first ban award for trolling. Congratulations!!! You have been working hard for years to earn it. Not that I even have a horse in the race anymore since OW is closed, and could have banned you a long time ago but chose civil debate to not avail.


Apologies to the others on this thread, back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Teotwaki

What would help the discussion would be more detailed examples of what sort of driving you will actually do, how much you will carry and so on.

Agreed, that is the basis that will help evaluate different options for your needs.

Each option out there has pros and cons; and everybody puts a different value to each pro&con.

[xonetruthcrewx]

BANNED!! Haha.

Anyways.... I have been emailing with Steve over at Sonoran Steel a bit today. After a few specific questions and reading his prompt and detailed answers, I ordered his kit.

Hopefully by the end of June I will be able to get it all installed and go give it a workout. And of course, I will make sure to post something up. Thanks guys.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by xonetruthcrewx

BANNED!! Haha.

Anyways.... I have been emailing with Steve over at Sonoran Steel a bit today. After a few specific questions and reading his prompt and detailed answers, I ordered his kit.

Hopefully by the end of June I will be able to get it all installed and go give it a workout. And of course, I will make sure to post something up. Thanks guys.

I believe the SS kit is based of the Bilstein 5100s??

Any specifics on this choice vs any of the other Bilstein setups/kits out there?