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Unread 04-25-2011, 05:28 PM   #1
shuly
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Last edited by shuly; 05-17-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Unread 04-25-2011, 06:41 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by shuly View Post
Found this document when I was sorting through some files. I had originally used this doc when I first started trying to decide on what radio I wanted to get. I found it pretty useful when I was deciding on my own radio equipment (VHF/UHF stuff.) It describes what radio features are and what features you might want to consider when buying a radio. There is also info on HF equipment (though I can't say if it is helpful as I haven't gone for my general yet).

This originally came from the ARRL but figured it might be helpful to those members here who are starting out and need to sort out the jargon and decide on what features they must have, want but don't need, etc...

Attachment 2752
Thanks for posting that, saw it before but had forgotten about it, so forwarded it to someone needing to decide on a rig
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Unread 04-30-2012, 09:32 AM   #3
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The bottom line is that the ARRL has lost its purpose and no longer represents the amateur radio community as a whole.
Technically - back in the day, licenses were not given out like purple queludes at a Grateful Dead concert and people had to actually be knowledgeable about transceivers - we don't use radios in communications.

A radio only receives , A Transceiver receives and transmits and is incorporated all into one package. Back in the day, we had receivers and transmitters and we had multiple antenna's or a switch so the antenna was disconnected from the receiver when we transmitted.. People actually built their own first transmitter.

The bottom line is - they give people a 35 question multiple guess test and then they hand them a license and then they hang them out to dry.
Originally it was the purpose of the clubs to educate these people, but when the CB radio crowd took over the Amateur Radio - all intelligence left the building with Elvis.

The bottom line is - when you get your technician license, you are limited by the privileges your license allows you.
If you have lot's of money and little brains - you can buy one good mobile multi purpose transceiver like the 7000, 706 MK II G, the 849 / 857D etc and be able to get on the air on the small segment of the 10 meters, 6 meters , 2 meters and 440 and listen to everything else. All you need is some antenna's, a power supply, some coax and a understanding of how to operate the transceiver.
Maybe even a transmatch.....

The Technician class license was never intended to be a stopping place.
Back in the day, you had to start out with a NOVICE license and you had to keep a log and you had to prove that you were an amateur radio operator before you were allowed to advance. And, if you waited more then a year to take your next exam - they cancelled your license and you were not allowed to reapply.
It was a one and you are done.

For some reason today, they just give out licenses and they tell those people to join the ARRL and to subscribe to the QST magazine and the QST exposes them to the different modes of amateur radio. Although the QST is heavily subsidized by the amplifier manufacturers and the intelligence has left the building with Elvis.

Amplifiers are the last resort - it's what we use when we exhausted all other possibilities with better antenna's.
The QST doesn't tell you this because they do not want to offend the sponsors.

Even the General Class License was never intended to be a stopping place in amateur radio.

The purpose of amateur radio is to give back to amateur radio what it has given you. To become volunteer examiners and give the examinations to new hams.
To be Elmer's and mentors, to be Official Observers - and to watch over the LIDS and to remind them that when they are operating improperly to not do it that way and to lead by example. Being a good ham and giving of your time and talents and volunteering. Not just talking on the radio on your local nets like a bunch of cb'rs on channel 17 or only working contests where you can get recognition and not have to actually talk to someone. Or if your only radio is a walkie talkie - to show people the right way to operate and to teach them that there is a whole big world out there and that their walkie talkie doesn't talk anywhere and doesn't do anything and that the batteries quickly fades on walkie talkies and once the battery and the spare battery dies - you are out of business.

Their simple little propaganda trying to show people what " " Radio is and what all the terminology is - is a little silly in my point of view - because if a person is actually dedicated - they should have already done the research and already learned this stuff before they got their license and not after...

Last edited by Pizza Delivery Guy; 04-30-2012 at 09:38 AM.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 01:10 PM   #4
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pizza guy while I can appreciate your dedication to the hobby, I find your post insulting. Why do you appear to hold such hostility to someone who simply wants to use amateur radio for better more reliable mobile communications? Just because I stopped at technician doesn't mean I have no brains. I have no desire to use the extra frequencies the other classes offer so why should I be forced to test up to extra? I believe they made the license classes for this exact reason. I felt the test study material gave me more than enough knowledge to safely and effectively operate a transceiver on the frequencies technicians are allowed to use. I personally enjoyed this article and reading it will do no harm to anyone looking to buy a radio.
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Unread 04-30-2012, 01:40 PM   #5
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I agree with Liqudus, just got my tech license, but I'm sure if the hobby was full of dudes exhibiting that sort of attitude, there would be nobody else to talk too!
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Unread 04-30-2012, 02:18 PM   #6
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Back in the day........blah!
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Unread 04-30-2012, 06:47 PM   #7
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There are currently 738,497 amateur radio operators in the US, that's 0.239% of the population. Perhaps opening the service up to more operators, by making it more accessible, will increase its effectiveness in disaster situations. I know my usage is limited to mobile comms. right now but if there was a disaster I would be tuned into my radio to see if there was anything in my neighborhood that I could help with

"Over the past year the Technician class has increased at an average rate of 24/day."

Per: Hamdata.com/
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Unread 04-30-2012, 07:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza Delivery Guy View Post
The bottom line is that the ARRL has lost its purpose and no longer represents the amateur radio community as a whole.
Technically - back in the day, licenses were not given out like purple queludes at a Grateful Dead concert and people had to actually be knowledgeable about transceivers - we don't use radios in communications.

A radio only receives , A Transceiver receives and transmits and is incorporated all into one package. Back in the day, we had receivers and transmitters and we had multiple antenna's or a switch so the antenna was disconnected from the receiver when we transmitted.. People actually built their own first transmitter.

The bottom line is - they give people a 35 question multiple guess test and then they hand them a license and then they hang them out to dry.
Originally it was the purpose of the clubs to educate these people, but when the CB radio crowd took over the Amateur Radio - all intelligence left the building with Elvis.

The bottom line is - when you get your technician license, you are limited by the privileges your license allows you.
If you have lot's of money and little brains - you can buy one good mobile multi purpose transceiver like the 7000, 706 MK II G, the 849 / 857D etc and be able to get on the air on the small segment of the 10 meters, 6 meters , 2 meters and 440 and listen to everything else. All you need is some antenna's, a power supply, some coax and a understanding of how to operate the transceiver.
Maybe even a transmatch.....

The Technician class license was never intended to be a stopping place.
Back in the day, you had to start out with a NOVICE license and you had to keep a log and you had to prove that you were an amateur radio operator before you were allowed to advance. And, if you waited more then a year to take your next exam - they canceled your license and you were not allowed to reapply.
It was a one and you are done.

For some reason today, they just give out licenses and they tell those people to join the ARRL and to subscribe to the QST magazine and the QST exposes them to the different modes of amateur radio. Although the QST is heavily subsidized by the amplifier manufacturers and the intelligence has left the building with Elvis.

Amplifiers are the last resort - it's what we use when we exhausted all other possibilities with better antenna's.
The QST doesn't tell you this because they do not want to offend the sponsors.

Even the General Class License was never intended to be a stopping place in amateur radio.

The purpose of amateur radio is to give back to amateur radio what it has given you. To become volunteer examiners and give the examinations to new hams.
To be Elmer's and mentors, to be Official Observers - and to watch over the LIDS and to remind them that when they are operating improperly to not do it that way and to lead by example. Being a good ham and giving of your time and talents and volunteering. Not just talking on the radio on your local nets like a bunch of cb'rs on channel 17 or only working contests where you can get recognition and not have to actually talk to someone. Or if your only radio is a walkie talkie - to show people the right way to operate and to teach them that there is a whole big world out there and that their walkie talkie doesn't talk anywhere and doesn't do anything and that the batteries quickly fades on walkie talkies and once the battery and the spare battery dies - you are out of business.

Their simple little propaganda trying to show people what " " Radio is and what all the terminology is - is a little silly in my point of view - because if a person is actually dedicated - they should have already done the research and already learned this stuff before they got their license and not after...
To set the record straight. We have Amateur Radio license holders of all classes on this board. From Technicians, General, and Extra Class. Everyone is treated the same, regardless which class license they hold.

The majority of the Amateur license operators on this board have transitioned from CB radio to HAM. Some members have years of prior experience with Amateur radio and some are totally new to the hobby. The number one reason people have transitioned to HAM, is far better communications. The range of CB, as you know is very limited. There are various reasons why some members entered the Amateur Radio world. Some members here are more active than others, but that doesn't mean they are more superior than the others. Some members only use their Transceivers on offroading trips, and some members use their Transceivers daily.

Last, this forum is not a dedicated HAM radio forum like Worldwide DX, or Radio Nation. We have the Communications Section for newbies and veterans to share information and learn from each other. We don't have an Old Boy pecking order here.

Please refrain from replies to derail this thread in a negative direction, or this thread will be locked or deleted completely.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:29 AM   #9
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OK since that's been addressed. I am one of the people that got the book read it passed the tech licensee multiple guess test. I am planning on taking the general in the future. I am now looking for a transceiver. I like the FT-8900R because it has the 4 band capability and a antenna designed specifically for the unit. From what I have read 6 meter is about useless but 10meter is pretty popular. Is it worth it to spend the money for the 8900 or just save the money and get the 8800. A couple local people I talked with say to go with the 8900 they all have it. The 350 is out of my price range. Reading some of the other threads the 350 is not rated for vibration is the 8900?

For the record I plan to attend a few meetings at the local radio club to get more information and more practical / useful knowledge.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 09:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza Delivery Guy View Post
The bottom line is that the ARRL has lost its purpose and no longer represents the amateur radio community as a whole.
Technically - back in the day, licenses were not given out like purple queludes at a Grateful Dead concert and people had to actually be knowledgeable about transceivers - we don't use radios in communications.
You are everything that's wrong with the old Amateur Radio goons.

"Uh, hi good morning! KGP9AW, top of the morning!

Kinda col here this morning, planning on getting out to the shed later...

I have to clean up some stuff, you know he he he he he he the usual!"
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Unread 05-02-2012, 09:22 AM   #11
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The Yaesu 8900 is a solid rig with it's quad band capability. Having 10,6,2 meters and 70cm is a bonus. With the 8800 you're limited to only 2m & 70cm, which is where the $100 difference comes in. Since you're going for your General, you'll be able to use the HF privilages on the 8900. If you don't want or need APRS, skip the 350AR.

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Unread 05-02-2012, 07:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by MCL_68 View Post
The Yaesu 8900 is a solid rig with it's quad band capability. Having 10,6,2 meters and 70cm is a bonus. With the 8800 you're limited to only 2m & 70cm, which is where the $100 difference comes in. Since you're going for your General, you'll be able to use the HF privilages on the 8900. If you don't want or need APRS, skip the 350AR.

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The speakers in the 350AR are minute - very small and the audio is very quiet - unless you use a remote speaker - you probably won't even be able to hear it while mobile and traveling down the road.
The Plus for the 350AR is that you can receive the weather band and the FM radio band.

The Yaesu 8900 will receive the weather band while in VFO mode and it will do APRS and Cross Repeate - including GMRS radios with the removal of a single diode - MARS CAP MODIFICATION.

Makes a really good temporary repeater with the addition of a ID Board or someone to sit next to it and ID with a call sign every 10 minutes.
Since it doesn't have remote control - you can't just set it up legally and walk away from it - because there is no way to remotely turn it off if it messed up.

That is the purpose of the transceivers that has the 220 MHz one watt capability.
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Unread 05-02-2012, 08:47 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by JAM07Sport View Post
From what I have read 6 meter is about useless but 10meter is pretty popular. Is it worth it to spend the money for the 8900 or just save the money and get the 8800. A couple local people I talked with say to go with the 8900 they all have it. The 350 is out of my price range. Reading some of the other threads the 350 is not rated for vibration is the 8900?

For the record I plan to attend a few meetings at the local radio club to get more information and more practical / useful knowledge.
I have the same dilemma if I upgrade my radio, currently an FT7900 which suits my purposes now, which radio to go with. I like the idea of APRS but there are other ways around that. So with a general license and access to more of the HF bands I would lean toward the 8900. The general license is a lot more interesting than the tech IMO so once I get there I will probably go with the 8900. Can not comment on 6m but if there is a lot of sunspot activity you can listen to Mexican cab drivers on 10m, bugs the snot out of a lot of HAMS

Quote:
Originally Posted by MCL_68 View Post
The Yaesu 8900 is a solid rig with it's quad band capability. Having 10,6,2 meters and 70cm is a bonus. With the 8800 you're limited to only 2m & 70cm, which is where the $100 difference comes in. Since you're going for your General, you'll be able to use the HF privilages on the 8900. If you don't want or need APRS, skip the 350AR.

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X2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizza Delivery Guy View Post
The Yaesu 8900 will do APRS.
Thanks for posting some useful information Please tell me how.

One little dig thou, it's just easier to call it a radio and everyone (none HAMs) are on the same page Oh yeah that thing you talk into
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Unread 05-02-2012, 10:29 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by shuly View Post
I have been running the 350 for over a year, as have many of the guys I wheel with. If you really want APRS then it is really the rig to go with if you want plug and play APRS. Something to be aware of. The APRS module is small and less than 100 bucks and plugs directly into the face plate.
Small technical correction:

The TNC (terminal node controller) and APRS software are built-in to the FTM-350 -
you do not need any additional module to run APRS. The plug-in module Shuly is referring to is the GPS module, which allows the radio to provide dynamic location data in the transmitted packet. The Yaesu FTM-350 requires using their dedicated GPS module, which can be plugged-in to the faceplate, or remotely mounted with an adapter kit.

So, there is no APRS module, either installed or required - hope that clears up any confusion...
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Unread 05-03-2012, 11:10 AM   #15
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I picked up a 350 last night and my friend and I got the APRS all setup and transmitting in less than a half hour. So far I REALLY like this unit!
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Unread 05-03-2012, 01:26 PM   #16
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You can set the 8900 up to ID and the timer for the talk and the ID.
Its built right into the transceiver.
It also ID's in CW.
For real good APRS reporting - you want a outdoors antenna.
The one I used was a GARMAN - stuck in the armrest on the door of a Explorer which had a good view of the passenger side window.
Some of the information on the APRS is redundant - due to the fact that you can get club information which is a week old for a club 100 miles away and it will make it appear as being a new message and local.
The same is true of the other vehicles reporting into the APRS - they might be 60 miles away and out of range of the local repeaters - but the APRS makes it appear as if they are in the same neighborhood.

I think I was warned that this is not an amateur radio forum - so maybe I should liimit my comments.
But if the only thing you use APRS for is vehicle tracking - there is much better solutions out there then to spend all that money on a transceiver that does APRS and all the perepherials needed to do it.
It was designed for emergency communications - so if say you were working a emergency event and you needed help, the other people could look at your call sign and the APRS would give them your GPS coordinates - there by saving time and unecessary time on the radio or repeaters trying to describe where you were and who you were.

If you were really doing APRS / you would need some type of keyboard or access - I don't know if you could do it through your cell phone and texting - where you could send short messages or not...

Its great if say you were helping out at a emergency shelter and you needed to report who was staying at the shelter, how many people you were housing and if you needed medicines for each person and what type and how much or to order meals as they do it with the Salvation Army and the Red Cross when disasters occures.

That's my two cents...
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Unread 05-03-2012, 07:24 PM   #17
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I think I was warned that this is not an amateur radio forum - so maybe I should liimit my comments.
Your post included a lot of useful information, thank you, if or when I upgrade to a 8900 I'll see about setting up the APRS if I need it. Good to know that it is capable of that, spurs me on to upgrade both license and radio.

So yes this is not a dedicated HAM forum, but there are a number of new and old HAMs here that are enthusiastic about amateur radio and I am as I am sure others are always looking for Elmers and good information. So if you have more information to share don't be shy.

Curious how you landed here on 120, googling toyota stuff or HAM stuff???

73
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Unread 03-20-2013, 03:33 PM   #18
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pizza guy while I can appreciate your dedication to the hobby, I find your post insulting. Why do you appear to hold such hostility to someone who simply wants to use amateur radio for better more reliable mobile communications? Just because I stopped at technician doesn't mean I have no brains. I have no desire to use the extra frequencies the other classes offer so why should I be forced to test up to extra? I believe they made the license classes for this exact reason. I felt the test study material gave me more than enough knowledge to safely and effectively operate a transceiver on the frequencies technicians are allowed to use. I personally enjoyed this article and reading it will do no harm to anyone looking to buy a radio.
Liqudus - I am not picking on you.
I am just starting the facts.
Amateur Radio was not designed for personal use - as a means of reliable communications between two people.
The part 97 - the rules explains and the ARRL explains this.
Basically what the ARRL has said is that If you can do it by telephone, you should not do it by amateur radio!

The reason why the FCC allows us to have licenses and gives us bandwidth to use is because we are supposted to be progressing the service of amateur radio as a whole. It is for experimental purposes, to train amateur radio operators at no cost to the government, to provide emergency communications in times of need.

If you aren't going to progress - then there is no reason for you to have a license if you are not going to experiment or if you are not going to participate in Ecomm.
To participate in Ecomm you need to join either ARES or RACES, you need to have at least a HF and digital capabilities. You need to attend meetings, you need to become trained to operate, you need to know how to take traffic in ARRL format.

This is the reason why there was so many different license classes just a few years ago and the reason why CW was a manditory part of the license structure.
Along with that was a log book that had to be kept, you had a certain period of time in which you had to advance your license beyond Novice to Technician and then Technician Plus, eventually becomming General and Advanced.

If you did not advance, they revoked your license and you were not allowed to reapply. It was a one and then you are done type deal.

This is the reason why so many amateurs that holds a license today, would not have held a license 15 years ago.. Most amateurs tends to be old - 58 is the average age of a ham radio operator, and the age just keeps getting older.

The ARRL realized that unless they allowed everyone in and kept no one out, they were going to run out of people in about 20 years when everyone died except a few dedicated people.. So they opened the doors to these no code tech's, allowed everyone to start out as Tech's, did not require a log book or even for a person to prove that they could operate properly.
Let everyone that could pass a simple 35 question multiple guess test, with no drawing of any schematics or knowledge of electricity or communications to get a license.

I passed a kid last year that was 8 years old.
Would you allow your 8 year old kid to play with 3000 volts?
Although they can pass the test, they have no real world knowledge.

This is the reason why things has gotten so bad on the local repeaters that I refuse to listen to them anymore..

It is NOT your fault that no one has explained this to you.
It is NOT your fault that they gave you a license and then hung you out to dry.
It is Your Fault that you did not pick up a book and do some research and learn more then the mininum that was necessary to pass the test.

The Amateur Radio License is like a permit to drive a car when you are 16 years old.
It does not prove that you know how to drive a car well enough to actually compete in a road race or on a stock car track..
It just says that you know the basic rules of the road and you know which pedal is the brake and which is the accelerator and you know how to park and what the road signs are for.

If you want to become a ham, become a ham.
if you want to hang out on the repeaters like a bunch of CB'rs and act juvenile - its not my point to tell you that what you are doing is wrong.

Some day it will get so bad that they will drop the license requirement all together and then you will have wished that you listened sooner to what I had to say.

Instead of flaming me, do yourselves a favor and join the ARRL
Subscribe to QST magazine, and if they hire some knowledgeable people - you might learn enough of the basics in about 5 years to know a little about what amateur radio is all about.

If you can find a true amateur radio club - join it.
Don't hang out on the walkie talkie bands with the CB'rs - make something out of yourself.

In 49 years, you will be the people telling the new kids that you have been a ham for 50 years and all the stories about how great things was back in your day.

Don't let a crochety old man like me get you all riled.
I can go up on the HF anytime I want to. Can you?

I am a VE - are you?
I can give all classes of license exam - can you?

If no one progresses past Technician - who is going to give the VE test sessions for the people who wants to become Generals and Amateur Extra's?

At the same time, have some compassion for the people who gave up a couple of hours of their life to give you the exam, and if they taught a class even more time then that.

Amateur Radio is not just about taking - it is also about giving back!
Ask yourself - what have I done for amateur radio?
Not - what has amateur radio done for me!
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Unread 03-20-2013, 03:40 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UnionJack View Post
Your post included a lot of useful information, thank you, if or when I upgrade to a 8900 I'll see about setting up the APRS if I need it. Good to know that it is capable of that, spurs me on to upgrade both license and radio.

So yes this is not a dedicated HAM forum, but there are a number of new and old HAMs here that are enthusiastic about amateur radio and I am as I am sure others are always looking for Elmers and good information. So if you have more information to share don't be shy.

Curious how you landed here on 120, googling toyota stuff or HAM stuff???

73
When I lived in Mooresville NC - everyone who raced 4 cylinders either had Ford Pinto's or Yota's.
The Yota's really ruled...

When I was a kid, Toyota came out with a 4 wheel drive pick up truck that lent itself to being jacked up, large tires, engine modifications which made it 4 wheel with the Fords and Chevrolets.

I had a lot of fun in those old pick ups and enjoy four wheeling and would like to one day do it in the desert.
I met Rod Hall several times - he is probably before your time..
I knew a lot of the desert racers from back in the day.
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Unread 03-20-2013, 04:25 PM   #20
bulldog
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Morgan Hill, CA
Posts: 12,284
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Way to respond to a post made a year back

Sounds like you need to take your issues up with the ARRL and not post here about your concerns of the direction of amateur radio. At least we encourage people to get a license, vs just buying a radio and using it.

Dealing with people that want to go offroad is very similar. You need to give and not just take. And people who invest a little is much less likely to mess up trails than idiots who have very little invested.
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