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Unread 04-18-2009, 01:46 PM   #1
AlexJet
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Default Diff leak through air locker

I drove this morning to Brantford which is 120km ( 75mi) away. In the afternoon I drove back about 140km (90mi) (different more scenic route). All the driveway was highway at 110km/h (70mph). After unloading the stroley from the trunk I walk around and mentioned fresh puddle of liquid on the driveway. I look underneath and all my left suspension was wet. The liquid tasted like oil. First I thought my coilover blow out, then I mentioned drips from the lower right rad mount. The liquid wasn't that dark to be engine oil and didn't look like antifreeze. I opened the hood and found my ARB compressor covered in purpled colored oil. I checked it closely and found that the air release valve is wet. So as I can understand the rear diff fluid were ejected through the valve while I was driving. I checked the rear pumpkin and it was warm, but not hot and I could hold my hand there. This is after driving 140km (90mi) at 110km/h (70mph) of highway driving. There wasn't any leaks when I drove this morning to Brantford.

Any ideas what can it be and how to fix it?

I installed the locker last fall and only engaged it once in the snow to test. There wasn't any toeing or trips with full load for a past 6 month either. I don't want to think that the locker failed and would need replacement. On of my friends had a problem of throughwing dirty (with gravel) diff oil from front axle on 87 4Runner and he had to replace the locker.
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Unread 04-18-2009, 06:34 PM   #2
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I don't have a leak that drips oil that bad. My air locker seems to push a little oil out every time I use it, so after some workout on the trail I get some oil squirted out of the vales.

So far the remedy seems to be the replacement of the oil seals on the locker itself, this means taking the locker out and swapping a couple of o-rings. I will probably take mine in soon to get it done, but not too worried about it yet. Yours sound much worse, and probably the same issue just more severe. I would say get the o-ring on the locker seal replaced first.

My understanding is that it is probably an installer issue, as they weren't careful enough with the o-rings when installing.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 06:31 AM   #3
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Andries, do you by the chance know the part number and where can I get them?

Robert, can you get me some? Is there a repair kit?
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Unread 04-19-2009, 10:30 AM   #4
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Dunno the part number, but I remember you can download the complete ARB locker assembly with part #s from the ARB website. Most ARB dealers will be able to help you with the part # and getting you the seals, etc you need.
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Unread 04-19-2009, 11:47 PM   #5
Yabedude
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Alex:

ARB's online manual link is broken. The main index is here:
http://www.arb.com.au/resources/pdf/airLockers/0-00.pdf
When you click on the specific manual urls, it omits the full path.

Here's direct links to the 3 ARB lockers that that we would use:

RD121:
http://www.arb.com.au/resources/pdf/...rs/2-RD121.pdf

RD132:
http://www.arb.com.au/resources/pdf/...rs/2-RD132.pdf

RD:111
http://www.arb.com.au/resources/pdf/...rs/2-RD111.pdf

For replacement O-rings use only BS136 Viton 75 for all three of the above models.

Good luck and keep us posted with what you find out about the leak.
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Last edited by Yabedude; 04-19-2009 at 11:52 PM.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 04:19 AM   #6
AlexJet
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Now I need to find anyone who can get me those O-rings... Will make a few calls today-tomorrow.
Hey, Robert, can you give me a hand here as well?
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Unread 04-20-2009, 07:47 AM   #7
Yabedude
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More threads with what appears to be similar issues and a solution ...

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums....php?p=3417410

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...rain+holes+arb

http://www.jeepsunlimited.com/forums...rain+holes+arb
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Unread 04-20-2009, 09:37 AM   #8
Teotwaki
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This post makes a lot more sense.

Called ARB and explained my problem and was told it may not be the o-rings. The problem is I have gear oil coming out the solenoid. They explained that if the locker is not leaking air then most likely my diff is not properly venting and thus building up pressure and forcing gear oil up the air line.

I just re-leak checked my system and after 35 minutes I lost around 3.5 - 4.0 psi of pressure with the locker engaged which is about par with my systems leak rate without the locker engaged so the locker is not leaking.

I will disconnect the vent tube next and make sure that it is clear of any obstruction.

Thanks,
rkik
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Unread 04-20-2009, 01:34 PM   #9
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Alex,

I'm keenly interested in knowing what your finding are as I'm sitting on 2 boxes of JTS gears and lockers that will be installed soon. If I need to drill a drain hole, better to know now.

Thanks.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 02:13 PM   #10
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Some folks extend their axle vent line up to the fuel-fill door, and install the factory vent valve in the end of the line.

The factory vent has a spring loaded valve in it, to releive internal pressure, as the axle heats up. After installing an ARB locker, the ARB air-line may be the path of least resistance, instead of overcoming the spring pressure in the factory vent.

I suggest replacing the factory vent valve with a small filter. This way, there should be no possitive or negative pressure in the axle.
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Unread 04-20-2009, 02:40 PM   #11
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Interesting point. Will have to check it out.

However from all I have read and heard is that you more than likely have an o-ring issue. But doing the vents is worthwhile for a test as it isn't a big deal vs pulling the locker out.

Some good threads on MUD. See this one. Slee is very knowledgeable on these types of things, see his post(s).
http://forum.ih8mud.com/80-series-te...pumps-oil.html
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Unread 04-20-2009, 04:23 PM   #12
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I have not seen the detailed schematics for the ARB locker; so mayby someone can answer this.

How does the locker push oil all the way up to the compressor or air valve? How does it create oil pressure in the line?

or

Does the O-ring prevent normal diff pressures (caused by heat) from pushing oil up through the air line?
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Unread 04-20-2009, 04:33 PM   #13
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AFAIK the o rings are to prevent the pressurized air system in the ARB actuator to mingle air and oil. If some oil gets past the O-rings, then when you release the air pressure at the solenoid, the pressurized air will flow back to the solenoid valve and take some oil with it. Thus the misting of oil by the valve.

Thus if breather is blocked there will be more pressure on the O-rings and higher likelihood of oil getting in there. If the oil pours out without using the locker at all, then these is probably a real problem.

Normal driving can probably get a little oil in the ARB system that will clear out with some use. I will see what my system does over time. In Alex's case he might want to look at his breathers and also o-rings.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 10:58 AM   #14
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RD-132 diagram and parts list

http://www.devon4x4.com/download-doc...s-diagram.html

ARB note on oil drainage
http://www.arb.com.au/resources/pdf/airLockers/5-11.pdf
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Photos http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1237

Last edited by Teotwaki; 04-21-2009 at 11:22 AM.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 11:10 AM   #15
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Over filling the diff with oil and/or having a clogged breather can cause this problem from what I have seen. I remember reading somewhere that you are supposed to use slightly less gear oil with an ARB than you would with a stock open diff.

Also, if you had the front of your truck jacked up or on stands when you filled the front diff, you most likely over filled it.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 11:24 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97kurt View Post

Also, if you had the front of your truck jacked up or on stands when you filled the front diff, you most likely over filled it.
Having it tilted I get, but why would it overfill if it is level and in the air? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 11:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
Having it tilted I get, but why would it overfill if it is level and in the air? Maybe I'm misunderstanding your statement.
Level and in the air is fine. But I've met a few people that would raise just the front end of the truck to service their diff and not realize they are changing the level by tilting it.
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Unread 04-21-2009, 11:39 AM   #18
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Looking at the diagram, it certainly looks like there are plenty of locations for oil to enter the diff, behind the O-Rings. The axles splines, cross shafts holes and what looks like 4 more holes in diff-case (#20).

Air pressure comes in at part #12, and is restrained behind the O-Rings, and seems to be trapped behind the clutch gear (#3), which will slide over the splined side gear (#16), locking all the spider gears to the flanged-cap (#1). The clutch gear becomes a piston, and the diff-case becomes a cylinder and the bonded seal is the rings to seal the piston.

So air can escape and oil can enter between parts #1, #3 & #16.

It does not appear to be a well sealed system. And it probably does not have to be well sealed, as long as the assembly interference tolerances are managed well. The oil could actually help maintain the pressure vessel, and extend the leak-down time, by creating a high viscosity seal around the mating parts.

But; it definitely looks like oil can get behind the O-Rings. If there is sufficient oil within the pressure vessel, the springs pushing the clutch gear back could push oil up through the air line. It looks like it would be a good idea to have the air hole in the seal-housing-assembly (#12) be oriented to the top of the axle, not the back of the axle.

Have I missed something about how this version of the ARB Locker works?
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Unread 04-23-2009, 04:34 AM   #19
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I've talked to my installer. He said that if it's installation, they will do the warranty, but if its the locker itself, then I have to deal with place I got it from (Robert, this is you).
Talked to ARB last night. There were very friendly and ready to help. Some info - there is no recall to RD132s. They suggest to check the breather. If pressure builds while highway driving and this is the only case of throughing the oil out, then it pushes the oil through the seals. Funny, but I asked tech guy there if this is the case with O-Rings and he told me that this may be seals (not O-rings). Either there is more seals and O-rings in the locker or they intentially doesn't want to stop at some part over the phone (understandable as you can't run diagnostic over the phone) and for details I might need to remove it from the truck and test on the bench. They were also very kind to give me the name of their head tech guy on Air Lockers should I have any question while performing this work.
Will re-check my breather and probably relocate it as well as it sits in the place where I can't see it and need to pull it out (on top of the frame close to fuel tank). If its fine, then my way is to installer as they might need to pull the locker out to check for seals.
I hope that it will be an easy fix....
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Unread 04-24-2009, 02:48 AM   #20
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The diagrams show the air line coming into the Seal Housing Assembly (#12). I can't see it in the diagram; but I assume there is a hole that passes through that ring to pressurize the system. Where ever that hole is, in the ID of that ring, should be oriented "UP", when mounted in the diff. The oil woul have to reach the top of the ring, before pressure could push it out.

I know it may not be possible to get it directly on top; but at close as possible seems like the best choice.
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