Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
Google only search Toyota120

Go Back   Toyota 120 Platforms Forum > Shared tech > Suspension and Tires

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 01-04-2016, 11:34 PM   #1
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default Suspension final selection - Fox or Icon or what? Yes I read the other treads:)

Hi all,
I have 2004 4Runner sport that I bought recently. It has about 159K km or 100k miles give or take. I've been relatively happy with my X-Reas suspension, but my wife hates it - in all fairness it is little to harsh. Maybe the 36+psi tire pressure helps that feelin,g but it does help the fuel economy
My driving now is dally computer to downtown Vancouver. In the future it will be highway with some dirt roads. I'm planning to go to Alaska all the way to Prudhoe bay if health and wealth allow us to do that next year. I'm not going to race, but I would still like to maintain safe handling at normal highway speeds and reasonable (40-45mph) on gravel or dirt roads.
So I read almost every post on almost every Toyota forum out there. I learned about progressive, digressive, mono tube etc shocks coilovers and everything in between.
I don't want to spend many thousand on suspension, but I don't mind to spend couple of grand, therefor my choices so far are Icon stage 1 with extended travel or Fox Shox. I would like to achieve about 2.5" to 2.75" lift max.
Somehow I talked myself out of Bilsteins 5100 as I did not find evidence for a comfort ride that differs much the OEM suspension. Yes they handle better than OEM, but as I understood they are quite firm. Did I mentioned that I also don't want to spend extra money on the external reservoirs, therefore the Kings are out...
For me more important is the comfort then the sporty firm handling. Of course I don't want to drive a boat on the road....
So I need comfort ride with nice (not super) handling. Is that possible with one of these brands and which one of these brands will be better suited for that?
Again, I went over many posts, but for the sake of me I can understand the difference. Some say Icons are softer but you need higher speed, some say Foxes are smoother.
Any body that have experience with both? Please give me some direct answers if possible.
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-04-2016, 11:55 PM   #2
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Attached is a picture of my 4Runner. Installed rear spoiler spider wheel spacers and few other little mods like aftermarket stereo, rear view camera etc,etc.image.jpeg
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 01:59 AM   #3
mikey
Tip Toe over the rock...
 
mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,370
Default

What about the OME BP-51?



Internal Bypass shock?

But in reality both Fox and Icon make a great product and will be good.
__________________
*Mike* 2010 SR5 Build

Last edited by mikey; 01-05-2016 at 02:01 AM.
mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 09:14 AM   #4
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikey View Post
What about the OME BP-51?



Internal Bypass shock?

But in reality both Fox and Icon make a great product and will be good.
Interesting! I have not considered these so far... As I simply did not know that OME makes internal bypass shocks. Do you have any experience with these? From what I read about Regular OME kits, they are not even as good as the Bilsteins. This is why I have not researched them more, but maybe internal bypass changes that.
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 02:14 PM   #5
mikey
Tip Toe over the rock...
 
mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,370
Default

No experience with them. These are their top of the line and haven't seen anyone run them yet. But they look like a promising alternative to the other companies in the game.


Sent using 1s and 0s.
__________________
*Mike* 2010 SR5 Build
mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 02:20 PM   #6
t-rex grrr
Is that a scratch!?
 
t-rex grrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 794
Default

Give King a consideration as well. I think I'll be trying them next.
__________________
2006 V8 SE
F: Icon UCA / Icon 2.5 Extended Travel Remote Reservoirs
R: Radflo Springs / Icon CDCV Remote Reservoirs
t-rex grrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 03:52 PM   #7
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by t-rex grrr View Post
Give King a consideration as well. I think I'll be trying them next.
I see from your badge that you seam to have the 2.5" extended travel Icons. What are your impressions?
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 04:45 PM   #8
t-rex grrr
Is that a scratch!?
 
t-rex grrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 794
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamaster View Post
I see from your badge that you seam to have the 2.5" extended travel Icons. What are your impressions?
Firm around town (see variables below), but soak up huge bumps and imperfections when driving fast off road.

Variables that affect ride quality include, how cranked up your coilovers are, tire pressure, and weight in car.

I truly enjoy my suspension setup, but the reason why I'd like to try Kings is b/c I've heard they feel more plush, which is something that I think suits my driving style better.
__________________
2006 V8 SE
F: Icon UCA / Icon 2.5 Extended Travel Remote Reservoirs
R: Radflo Springs / Icon CDCV Remote Reservoirs
t-rex grrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 05:29 PM   #9
mikey
Tip Toe over the rock...
 
mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 1,370
Default

If I go LT my truck will get Kings as well. Just the price...


Sent 1s and 0s.
__________________
*Mike* 2010 SR5 Build
mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 05:44 PM   #10
Wishbone
Senior Driver
 
Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CO
Posts: 947
Default

Digressive (Icon) vs progressive (everyone else) valving. Small bumps are rougher with a digressive valved shock, and become less firm at a higher shaft speed (not truck speed). A progressive will be more supple on smaller bumps and ramp up for bigger hits. Digressive will provide less body roll on the street.
__________________
• 04 V6 SR5 • King/Dirt King •

Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-05-2016, 11:36 PM   #11
Mikestang
Don't follow this guy
 
Mikestang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The wild wild west
Posts: 4,460
Default

Wait a second, your wife thought the stock xreas was too harsh? How so? Xreas is like driving a couch through a cloud in a mud bog.
__________________
'07 Ltd 4Runner v8 4x4 - Midland 75-822 + Wilson 5000, Garmin 276c, Magnaflow catback, Kurtfab front diff brace, 265/70/17 Goodyear ATA on Robby Gordon Signatures, Spidertrax, 3/4" BL, BajaRack, 2wd sway, Icon front, Overland Warehouse rear, Kurtfab v2.1 LCAs, MedicLinks, Slee SS lines, BB skids, Demello sliders & LCA ramps, All-Pro diff guard, TC full gusseted front, SW bumper
www.mikestang.com
Mikestang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 01:17 AM   #12
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikestang View Post
Wait a second, your wife thought the stock xreas was too harsh? How so? Xreas is like driving a couch through a cloud in a mud bog.
I don't know if you had any oil left in yours. My are still quite firm. I also don't quite like going over a pothole and feeling the whole truck gets shaken. As I drove the same way to work before I bought the 4Runner, I know for a fact that my car didnt even feel the same obstacles. I personally was expecting that heavier vehicle should feel such small bumps less then a car, but I guess I was wrong.
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 09:19 AM   #13
Wishbone
Senior Driver
 
Wishbone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: CO
Posts: 947
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamaster View Post
I don't know if you had any oil left in yours. My are still quite firm. I also don't quite like going over a pothole and feeling the whole truck gets shaken. As I drove the same way to work before I bought the 4Runner, I know for a fact that my car didnt even feel the same obstacles. I personally was expecting that heavier vehicle should feel such small bumps less then a car, but I guess I was wrong.
Aftermarket suspension is not for you then.
__________________
• 04 V6 SR5 • King/Dirt King •

Wishbone is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 09:44 AM   #14
bulldog
Admin
 
bulldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 12,310
Default

XREAS does a great job to help reduce body roll and nose dive, unfortunately it does have a side effect of giving more feedback on potholes, etc. Unfortunately for you most aftermarket suspensions use stiffer spring rates and shock valving to improve control offload, and in most cases handling on road. They however will feel firmer on road than stock suspensions, with the exception where they can soak up larger potholes and bumps better than stock, but smaller items do provide more cabin feedback.

One option is to have the shocks custom valved and not to crank up the coilers for a lot of lift. If you use spacers in the back and 600b coils on COs with the right shock valving you can end up with a ride that will be better on road, and also work nicer offroad (won't have as much control on rough stuff). Also the weigh carrying capability won't be as good as most aftermarket setups, and pretty much the same as stock.

So pick your poison, but if you talk to a good shop the may be able to help you find what you are looking for. However don't just grab an off the shelf aftermarket setup and expect a plush on road ride.
__________________
andries
K9BDG

2019 Low Rider
bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-06-2016, 01:25 PM   #15
Mikestang
Don't follow this guy
 
Mikestang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The wild wild west
Posts: 4,460
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamaster View Post
I don't know if you had any oil left in yours. My are still quite firm.
Mine were basically new, still full of oil. I don't think you know what a firm ride is! "Mush bucket" is how I described the factory xreas system.
__________________
'07 Ltd 4Runner v8 4x4 - Midland 75-822 + Wilson 5000, Garmin 276c, Magnaflow catback, Kurtfab front diff brace, 265/70/17 Goodyear ATA on Robby Gordon Signatures, Spidertrax, 3/4" BL, BajaRack, 2wd sway, Icon front, Overland Warehouse rear, Kurtfab v2.1 LCAs, MedicLinks, Slee SS lines, BB skids, Demello sliders & LCA ramps, All-Pro diff guard, TC full gusseted front, SW bumper
www.mikestang.com
Mikestang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 03:42 AM   #16
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikestang View Post
Mine were basically new, still full of oil. I don't think you know what a firm ride is! "Mush bucket" is how I described the factory xreas system.
Fair enough. I did not intend any pun when I mentioned "no oil". No oil is usually when they get really soft...
BTW I know little bit about cars I've been doing them only for 40 years... Trucks on other hand I don't pretend to know much, regardless then most of the principals are the same. That's why I'm asking for advises here on this forum.
I work lots with engineers and I hate to work with the guys that tell me 22 ways how it can not be done. Not all engineers of course are like that. Some will take the presented problem a way and then come back with solution. This is the type of advise I'm looking for. Everyone knows how to criticize, but very few have the knowledge to resolve the presented problem...

Last edited by Seamaster; 01-07-2016 at 04:03 AM.
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 03:54 AM   #17
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
XREAS does a great job to help reduce body roll and nose dive, unfortunately it does have a side effect of giving more feedback on potholes, etc. Unfortunately for you most aftermarket suspensions use stiffer spring rates and shock valving to improve control offload, and in most cases handling on road. They however will feel firmer on road than stock suspensions, with the exception where they can soak up larger potholes and bumps better than stock, but smaller items do provide more cabin feedback.

One option is to have the shocks custom valved and not to crank up the coilers for a lot of lift. If you use spacers in the back and 600b coils on COs with the right shock valving you can end up with a ride that will be better on road, and also work nicer offroad (won't have as much control on rough stuff). Also the weigh carrying capability won't be as good as most aftermarket setups, and pretty much the same as stock.

So pick your poison, but if you talk to a good shop the may be able to help you find what you are looking for. However don't just grab an off the shelf aftermarket setup and expect a plush on road ride.
Thanks for that! I was kind of thinking myself that I might have to call Fox or Ikon and see what they will suggest. If the of the shelf aftermarket is so firm, I might have to do my own re-valving. It kind of sucks to drop 2-3 grand on suspension and have to open to revalve. Most of the motorcycles I had had at least 3way adjustment on each shock/coilover. My current R1200GS has elcronic adjust on preload, rebound and something else I forgot at the moment... And it works great as you can call for suspension response that you need for the particular run. I LOVE it!
I guess I should pick one and revalve, but which one is better for that? Icons one can't do himself, from what I read. So then does that leave me only Fox? Are there any that have no external reservoir, but have at least external rebound adjustment?
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 04:00 AM   #18
Seamaster
Rookie
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 31
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Aftermarket suspension is not for you then.
Hey Wishbone,
Thank you for the advise but this is not quite what I think. If there is a will, there is a way! I'm going to find proper solution to my requirements even if I have to revalve new shocks myself. Done it before, will have to do it again, just hate to spend $$$$ and then work to make it fit my needs... I had hope, I could find something of the shelf.
Seamaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 07:33 AM   #19
Wanderer
Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamaster View Post
I personally was expecting that heavier vehicle should feel such small bumps less then a car, but I guess I was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wishbone View Post
Aftermarket suspension is not for you then.
My Icon CDC shocks set at 2 or 3 are really rather smooth, even with Light Truck tires at 35 PSI. I am pretty sure that with passenger tires at 32 PSI I would have a sedan-smooth ride. If Kings are more plush as reported I can't see how anyone would have a complaint with them in that regard. In the favor of the Icons the adjustment range is broad, whereas I hear that the King adjusters are more for fine tuning?
__________________
2006 4Runner 4WD V6 daily driver
• Falken A/T3W LT285/70/17; TrueTrac LSD; 5th gen front brakes; 4.56 gears
• Icon 2.5" ext CDC shocks F/R w/ 2" lift springs; Light Racing UCAs
• RCI skid plates; OPOR lower links, rock sliders, and link guards
• SuperBump™ bumpstops front; Timbren Active Offroad rear
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 01-07-2016, 08:47 AM   #20
T-man
Driver
 
T-man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Traverse City MI
Posts: 74
Default

I personally wouldn't go Icon. The valving makes bumps harder when going slow and then they get softer the harder you hit them. I don't mean MPH, the harder you hit them. So casual driving you will feel more but offroad they are going to compress much more. Fox, King, Radflo all use progressive so they soak up little bumps in the road then firm up on big holes and such while bombing around offroad. Better ride, better ability. I personally like what Radflo and King have going on, not to knock Fox one bit either.
__________________
2005 Toyota 4Runner, Sport Edition, V8, K&N filter, straight pipe exhaust, Bilstein 5100's, Rear Daystar 1.5" lift and FJ coils, 2.5" RB Body Lifit, removed Sway-Bars, removed mud flaps, removed running boards, chopped body mount, 315/70-R17 Hankook Dynapro MT
T-man is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
comfort, fox, icon, lift, suspension

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fs: Icon stage 6 suspension - 10+ 4r cruiserlarry For Sale Members 1 10-29-2014 10:37 PM
DeMello ICON suspension prices JDeMello Vendor area 1 03-06-2013 04:08 PM
Icon Stage 6 Suspension - ICON - Used/Swap wolverine Items Wanted by Members 1 11-27-2012 06:10 PM
Icon Suspension sale thread Oct 12 thru Oct 26th JDeMello Vendor area 1 10-20-2012 09:28 PM
FS: 2009 GT Force 2.0 All Mountain MTB. Full Suspension. Fox Shocks 4runner8 For Sale Members 0 05-28-2012 03:36 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:59 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2005-2013 Toyota120.com