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Unread 01-09-2014, 09:58 PM   #1
rigtec
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Default 5'th gen "Alternator Replacement"

Hi forum team' ("I'm new to this website and already have seen much talent; so glad to be here!")

I bought my 2012 4Runner L.E. back in April of 2012. Since that time, I've added a few accessories e.g., PIAA fog light (520) kit, large "dual power amp" (1.5 KW) Sub-woofer system... yada, yada, yada!

So I decided that I needed to upgrade the vehical's stock 130 amp electrical system to prevent having a constant current overload on the truck's main electrical block and, to meet the increased electrical demand imposed by the installed, and future, "after market accessories".

Our O.E. Toyota alternator (small case "Denso hairpin") will deliver about 130 amps @ full output (appx 90 amps @ idle); "for a luxury vehical, that's barely enough for it's standard electrical components". Just a few weeks ago, I discovered a company by the name of "Nations starter and alternator", who claimed to have a large case "Denso hairpin" alternator capable of 270 amps full output (180 amps curbside idle).

Well, this alternator (270XP), will fit in the exact same footprint as the original, even the wiring harness will align w/ no mods. I ordered it. It'll take up to five weeks to arrive because it's "made to order", said the C.S. gentleman. Looking at the original one and trying to assess the swap, there's really not a lot of room to remove it from it's operational location. I did quite a few searches trying to find someone (anyone), who has done this before but I came up "empty handed".

I know it's not a big deal to swap an alternator; at least most of them aren't. I was an auto mechanic in the old days, between '76 and '86. But after that I went into the commercial air conditioning/Refrigeration/building controls field, and have never looked back! But now, some twenty eight years later I don't remember how to open the hood...... so I don't. lol!! If it's something that I can do in my driveway then ok, I'll do it. But, if I'm going to get half way into the job and then find out that the power steering lines or freakin water pump has to be removed first, I'm gonna be... !!! hahahaha!

Has anyone here changed an alternator on a 5'th gen 4R? could get tricky, "Take a look at thumbnail below" (Click/tap to enlarge)

rigtec, cheers
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File Type: jpg 257.jpg (1.42 MB, 65 views)
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Last edited by rigtec; 06-22-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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Unread 01-10-2014, 03:25 PM   #2
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There's more to upping the amperage that just getting the alt. to fit physically. The whole electrical system was designed to work with an alternator with a specific output. I don't know enough to speak to the details, but I do know that you have to do more than just slap a new one in that fits.

That being said, I do not know anyone who's needed a larger alt. on these trucks, everyone I know/have seen in person/have wheeled with has the stock alt.

And what's up with all the "quotation marks"?
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Unread 01-10-2014, 06:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikestang View Post
...The whole electrical system was designed to work with an alternator with a specific output."
This statement is only partially true. An electrical system is designed to work with an alternator, "having no less than XYZ". To increase is Always okay.

Quote:
"...And what's up with all the "quotation marks"?
what, these...""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" """"""""""""!!!!!!!

rigtec, cheers
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Unread 01-11-2014, 12:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rigtec View Post
This statement is only partially true. An electrical system is designed to work with an alternator, "having no less than XYZ". To increase is Always okay.
No.

I cannot run a 1,000,000,000 amp alternator. You are limited by not only the gauges of wires, but fuses throughout the system.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 01:33 AM   #5
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I would recommend that you check the wiring diagram and where you want to pull the extra load on the wiring from.

Most guys have run plenty of high power accessories with the stock alt unit, but if you pull more power make sure the wiring where you pull it from will support it. Typically the factory has a safety factor build in, but I doubt it will support double the amps,

You may be able to feed directly from the alt for your accessories, but make sure to beef up the ground circuits as well. I have been surprised on how manufacturers have reduced wiring gauge size the last 20 years to reduce weight with all the additional circuits.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 01:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
I would recommend that you check the wiring diagram and where you want to pull the extra load on the wiring from.
Duely noted!

Whenever a new load is to be added to your vehical e.g., winch, overhead lamps, fogs, etc, it's your responsibility to determine just how many amps (current) the new accessory will need to operate. If it is considered a large load (more than 2 or 3 amps imho), then you cannot just "sneak-it-in" on top of another circuit. It will need to have a dedicated circuit w/fuse or a breaker. This way none of the other pre-existing circuits are affected by the new install.

In my case, all of the added accessories are on fused, dedicated line circuits. The problem is, these add-ons, can potentially consume more than 100 amps alone from the battery/alternator, so a larger power source is needed. Some enthusiasts will install a dual battery set-up to assure plenty of available current when needed. Some have even installed a dual (or tripple) alternator/ line grid, availing themselves to literally hundreds of surplus amps, but doing so doesn't draw more current from the vehical's factory wiring system.


Quote:
...You may be able to feed directly from the alt for your accessories, but make sure to beef up the ground circuits as well. I have been surprised on how manufacturers have reduced wiring gauge size the last 20 years to reduce weight with all the additional circuits.
True again,

These factory installed cables are really small. Once the new alternator arrives, the pre-existing main power cables (pos +) and ground lines, both frame and body, will be properly upgraded. Good lookin' out!

rigtec, regards
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[Certifications: Auto electric, Auto a/c, Steering & suspension.]

Last edited by rigtec; 01-11-2014 at 02:51 PM.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 01:55 PM   #7
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Cool, keep us posted and remember to take lots of pix. This will be interesting and value able for a lot of folks.
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Unread 01-11-2014, 02:37 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
Cool, keep us posted and remember to take lots of pix. This will be interesting and value able for a lot of folks.
Sure will bulldog, thanks again for your reply!

Greg, (rigtec)
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Unread 02-07-2014, 08:58 PM   #9
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Hi again forum team'

Just thought I'd follow up (as promised), and share a little more info about this company that specializes in "charging systems & starters", which is not exactly a foreign subject to some of the technicians, engineers, mechanics, or plain ole' "Hot Rod" aficionados that surf these forums.

As mentioned earlier, I ordered a "High output", Denso hairpin alternator for my 2012 limited back in December. Well, it finally arrived last fri 1/31/14, but then it snowed here in NJ, destroying my plans to drop it in out in the driveway, so I'm waiting for a good day to get it done!

In the meantime... I ran across a few "You Tube" demonstrational videos, focusing on some of their specialized products and one in particular; the Denso hairpin large case, "270XP". This unit fits precisely... in the original alternator's work space, with attention to mounting & wiring position.

Part of my objective in choosing a larger alternator, was to find one that would offer high output at curbside(idle); which is where a lot of batteries get depleted. You're simply listening to music while waiting for someone to come out to the car, or just letting the truck idle for extended periods of time with the heat or a/c on. Then you shut the truck off, momentarily, to expedite your passenger, come back, turn the key and then... click, click, click, no start!

Well, here's an alternator that claims it can deliver 180 to 190 amps@ idle; Here's a video of the 270XP on a "Dummy Load" simulation (bench) machine during an actual performance test, take a look: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=iDtLcYJuHOY

Hope you liked that. Just wanted to share some of my findings while working on this charging system upgrade project. There's not a lot of info (believe it or not) out there on the subject, outside of the "dual battery set-ups", which are fine... until you need more available current but don't want to add engine brackets for a dual/tripp alt bundle, or another battery to your vehical.

I'll post some pics when it's in, until then... chow baby!

rig
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Last edited by rigtec; 02-16-2014 at 11:41 PM.
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Unread 02-16-2014, 10:10 PM   #10
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Well, I'm still waiting for a good day to swap-out my stock 130A alternator w/ the new one; it snowed twice last wk and we got buried (apprx 29", on top of the snow from the week before). But I still need to do a "before / after" comparison so as to document the problem that existed before the change-out, and then again after it has been resolved. I've taken a couple of pictures of my volt meter read-outs under very different conditions. The first is just after starting the truck. There were no lights on in the vehical (during the day), and I deliberately shut down the heat (blower fan), and the audio system. Here's a snap-shot of an "UN-LOADED" charging system voltage reading (taken @ idle); cold battery (ambient temp=18 deg F), "standing voltage" was @11.49 (w/engine off).


As you can see, the battery/charging system voltage is good (still 18 deg F) @12.83, as indicated by the "battery icon" (showing full) on the right of the numeric display, and the green 'LED' just beneath the number 12. The alternator is trying to replace the battery's surface charge, depleted by start-up and the severe cold; it will eventually rise to 14.2 volts before leveling off at 13.8. Incidently, the two JL Audio "HD-750's" will consume about 56 amps (each), to deliver their full output of 750 watts true rms (x2). So that's 112 amps from a gross budget of 130A, leaving only 18 amps from the "full-fielded" alternator. Then, there's another 'add-on'. The PIAA 520 foglights, which can use up to 10 amps gross, leaving only around eight amps to run the truck... and to charge the battery! Here's another snap-shot of a completely loaded charging system voltage reading (taken @ idle) at night. The engine has reached it's normal operating temperature, and the low beams, foglights, heater fan and the audio subwoofer system, are in full operation at this time.


As indicated by the voltage monitor in this photograph, the battery icon is "completely depleted", and the red 'LED' is showing an urgent warning, prompting the driver to get this checked ASAP!. Now, I'm not in the habbit of abusing my truck, it's audio components, or it's electrical system; this 'overload' condition was implemented just for this test. But I really enjoy knowing that IF... I wanted to operate it's electrical loads at full potential, it would be just fine! More to come when I make the swap! Happy trails!

rigtec, regards
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Unread 03-11-2014, 04:37 PM   #11
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G'day mates,

I finally got the new DC Powers "270-XP" high output alternator in the truck today. I don't know if anyone else here has ever changed a 5th gen 4R alternator yet, but if you're planning it or need to... BEWARE! Looking at it, standing in front of the truck, you can see that it might be a b*tch getting it out from it's station. The engine head overlaps it on top, the a/c compressor beneath, hoses/piping and large harness to the right, and engine block to the south, ugh...

There are, what looks like two bolts holding it in place. But what you can't see is a third bolt and bracket down underneath the alternator, securing it to the exhaust manifold which is very difficult to remove from up top; glad I had my mechanic taking care of it for me this time ... dodged a bullet! Additionally, there is an electrical system harness that's secured to the alternator as well, so IF you ever need to R&R your alternator on a 5th gen, give yourself plenty of extra time to do this one; even the service time estimate guide advises 1.5 hrs to do this job, which is just short of the actual time that it took and this mechanic works really fast.

Snapped a couple pics of the new alternator stationed in it's new home.


Perty ain't it!!

In the photo down below, the battery is partially discharged due to having been disconnected and then reconnected, and the engine started several times in the shop. The electrical system is completely drained of any storage voltage (used for clock memory, radio pre-sets, ecm data storage, etc... ), "The monitor represents a partially drained battery w/icon reading about 50%; engine off."


Okay now to start the engine, see monitor below:



I have my electrical monitor plugged in as I did before, but this time the numbers are very different. This image shows an "UN-LOADED" charging system, no radio, no wipers, no heat or a/c operating at this time. The new alternator has just been installed. As indicated by the battery icon above (just to the right of the numeric value), it shows that this battery is depleted of any 'deep charge', (only a surface charge is indicated by the "12.19" in the previous monitor photo).

After driving home from the repair shop, about a 20 min drive, you can see that the battery's "state of charge" has improved greatly, as indicated by the battery icon below. After just pulling in and sitting still in my driveway, I'm "loading" the charging system up as before; wipers on, subwoofer system, headlights, fogs, a/c system on etc... but you see a very different reading as compared to the results that I documented in my last post of 12.83v, w/ 'LED' showing an urgent warning, for me to have this condition checked asap.



This time, an ideal reading of 14.12v is shown (everything on); no red LED warning light or high pitched whine of an overloaded, full-fielded alternator that can't keep up. Just a healthy electrical system that has plenty of power to spare 'if needed'. Next, I'll be installing some larger battery/frame/body cables to replace the "linguine" installed by Toyota. Hope this thread will be helpful to other team members needing an electrical/charging system upgrade! Chow,

rigtec, and regards
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Unread 04-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #12
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As I mentioned in my last post to this thread, I still needed to upgrade the factory battery/charging system cables in the 4R due to the increased capacity of it's electrical system. Rather than ripping out all of the original factory cables from their tightly routed locations, I've decided to allow them to continue operating exactly as they have been but used a 'partner' or 'tandem' (parallel) cable configuration instead.

By doing this, you will increase the Load carrying capacity of those specific cables of concern, by adding an additional electrical path for current to flow through, so they will share the load. I picked up some new brass battery terminals from Auto Zone, along w/four, 4ga x 19 inch cables with "looped" ends, for 'Quick Connecting' with lugged terminals.

I also looked for a 140 amp ANL wafer fuse (to match the original factory circuit), w/fuse holder but couldn't find one so I went online and ordered some from amazon, along with a 100' roll of 3/8' "split loom flexible conduit" for that professional touch. Once the order arrived, I began putting my components together for installation the next day.

Here's a sketch of the wiring build-up to give an idea of exactly what's been done:

The dotted lines represent the existing factory cables, which I've left in place. The solid lines illustrate the new, heavier 4ga cables that were installed; I think the factory cables are 8ga, kinda small.

Here's a couple of pics I snapped of the finished product below; really not much to see but...



Forgot to show the "before/after" views but just go outside under your hood and look... hahaha!



Here (above) is a look at the new "Brass" negative battery term, new cable, and fender "ground" terminating points (original factory ground cables just above relay/fuse box, and "added cables", over on the (far) extreme left fender panel)

A little better view of the same cables as above (neg battery and engine cables to body ground):


Now below, the new "engine to body" ground cable. This cable terminates at the same spot on the fender as does the new neg battery cable (pictured above)


It was very difficult to show this new "Main pos (+) power cable", which extends from the alternator (B term) output lug to the (Hot) battery terminal; via the 140A auxiliary fuse.


NOTE: This fuse was added to be in compliance with Toyota's electrical system wiring safety provision. The idea is that in the event of a serious front end collision, should the main battery cable be severed from the alternator, it's 140 amp main fuse would offer an opportunity to "disconnect the power", to prevent an explosion or fire.

Located on the leftside wheel well, this 140A ANL wafer fuse joins the new auxiliary Generator output cable, and new 'Positive' battery supply cable.

This project has been very fulfilling for me. No more low voltage output readings when accessories are being used. No more dimming or oscillating head lights when music is pumped up a bit, and no concerns as to what the vehical's electrical system can and cannot do. I'll be posting again if anything changes! hope someone else can use some part of it to benefit in some way as well. Happy trails!

rigtec
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Last edited by rigtec; 06-23-2014 at 01:22 AM.
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Unread 05-12-2017, 08:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Now below, the new "engine to body" ground cable. This cable terminates at the same spot on the fender as does the new neg battery cable (pictured above)
Question here.... you say this is a new engine to body ground, did you have one there in the first place? My 2011 sr5 has no ground cable in this location but I'm thinking about slapping one in there anyways.
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Unread 05-13-2017, 11:58 AM   #14
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Quote:
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Question here.... you say this is a new engine to body ground, did you have one there in the first place? My 2011 sr5 has no ground cable in this location but I'm thinking about slapping one in there anyways.
Hi Jeffy,

The factory install ground wiring is there or your starter and alternator (among other devices) would not work!

Cheers
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Unread 05-13-2017, 05:29 PM   #15
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Hi Jeffy,

The factory install ground wiring is there or your starter and alternator (among other devices) would not work!

Cheers

Weird.... mine must be somewhere else... (that loom is not grounded, just attached as an anchor point)

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