Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
Google only search Toyota120

Go Back   Toyota 120 Platforms Forum > General Tech > 4th Gen 4Runner & Hilux Surf

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 11-15-2016, 09:41 PM   #1
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default 4th Gen Brakes Converted to 5th Gen Brakes

Hey guys and gals! So I got this idea from a post on the T4R.org website. I have 101k miles on my factory brakes with 2/16" of pad material left on them for a total of 3/16" left. No stuck calipers to report either, probably helps that I live in the desert southwest of the US!

So I was looking at upgrading my 16" rotors to the (limited or sport) 17" rotors, which are 319mm vs 338mm, but then I saw the post mentioned above and I figured if I was going to be upgrading rotors and calipers, might as well go with the 5th gens since the 2010-2015 are a direct bolt on, 2016 went with larger mounting bolts that won't work. So the front rotors that are the only ones with different sizes, the 4th and 5th gen rears are the same size rotors. The 4th and 5th gen brake pads are the same sizes, but the 5th gen pistons are the kicker, they are 2.5mm larger in size front and rear. Make sure you are using the 17" rims if you upgrade, otherwise they won't fit.

I had issues getting the rear rotors off since the parking brake is there. Make sure to loosen the parking brake star adjuster by rotating them in the down direction. The book says to tighten back to 8 turns, but I had to go down to like 3 and then I still need to adjust the center console parking brake adjuster.

Initially I used 2 32oz bottles to bleed the brakes but it wasn't enough. I then bought 4 more bottles to go through a whole bottle at each corner to make sure I got any air out plus to refresh my factory DOT3 fluid with the Valvoline DOT 3/4 Synthetic fluid that I used. I had a vacuum bleeder to pull the fluid while I pumped the brakes to get the fluid to flow, made a 2 person job into a 1 person job.

4th Gen Caliper Pistons
Front: 45.5 mm
Rear: 45.5 mm

5th Gen Caliper Pistons
Front: 48mm
Rear: 48mm

4th Gen Caliper Rotors
Front: 319 or 338 x 28mm thick
Rear: 312 x 18mm

5th Gen Caliper Rotors
Front: 338 x 32mm
Rear: 312 x 18mm

Part Numbers for the 2015 4Runner that I used on RockAuto.

Brake Pads (you can pick your favorite flavor of pads you want, these are just what I picked)
Front: Akebono Performance ASP976 Performance Ultra Premium Ceramic Pad
Rear: Akebono Performance ASP606 Performance Ultra Premium Ceramic Pad
These pads have a friction rating of "GG". I forgot to see what the factory pads were rated, as they are already in the trash. http://faculty.ccbcmd.edu/~smacadof/DOTPadCodes.htm

The Akebono brake pads don't have a "burn in" but instead just drive normal for about 300-400 miles and to try to avoid heavy braking. Here's my 2 cents if you do, try not to keep your foot on the brake, but cheat and use the parking brake at your stop.

Calipers - 1 Each
141.44587
141.44588
141.44287
141.44288

Rotors (you can pick your favorite flavor of rotors you want, these are just what I picked)
Front: 120.44174 x2
Rears: 120.44175 x2

Parking Brake - I bought these as some people had issues and had to replace them anyways. However I have to say these are a PITA! LOL
Hardware: 118.44034
Pads: 111.08500

Brake Lines
Front & Rear (body to axle): Crown Performance - TOYO28FR03 (03-09 3" Extended Lines)
Rear Calipers: Stoptech/Centric - 950.44507
Crown Performance is the MFG that Wheeler's Offroad uses, but they were out of stock, so I was directed to Crown.

Recommend to pickup some caliper paint to keep the calipers from looking rusty in like 2 weeks as others found to happen. I used the red Rust-Oleum Automotive Caliper Paint Kit.


Picture time!
Parts ordered list








Action time! Step 1 support truck with proper jack stands. However it did get a good washing prior to working on my truck to make it less of a mess.


Factory fronts.


Factory Rears


Look ma I can fly!


Here is the rear calipers with the Stoptech/Centric SS lines on the calipers.


More of the rear calipers.


More of the rear calipers.


Rear brake setup w/5th Gen calipers.


Front brake setup with 5th gen calipers.


Front brake setup with 5th gen calipers.


Front SS brake lines. The front lines are extended by 3" as well.


Rear SS lines.


The body to rear axle SS brake lines installed. I'm not really digging how they are laying, but I will keep an eye on them to make sure they aren't wearing on anything. However I tried messing with the routing, but couldn't get them any better than this.
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"

Last edited by chayos00; 11-16-2016 at 09:50 AM.
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-15-2016, 11:43 PM   #2
Jeffy
JetBoil Master
 
Jeffy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 820
Default

Nice write-up. If I hadn't upgrade to a 5th gen already I would probably do this next time I needed brakes.
__________________
'03 v8 LTD Totaled
'11 SR5 Pelfreybilt :: Radflo :: Total Chaos :: Stubbs Sliders :: RB BL :: 34x10.5 BFG T/A KO2 :: Rockford Fosgate, JL Audio
Jeffy is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2016, 08:44 AM   #3
java230
Old Timer
 
java230's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,098
Default

Very nice! thanks for taking the time to write it all up with the part numbers!
__________________
03 V6, OME, 265/70/17 Duratrac's, all-pro spacers, Rola rack, Perkins Front bumper, DIY drawers, 7" HID driving lights, M8000, CB
java230 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-16-2016, 09:52 AM   #4
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by java230 View Post
Very nice! thanks for taking the time to write it all up with the part numbers!
Thanks! My wife was bitching at me last night saying, no one is going to read all of that. I'm like if they are interested they might!
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 07:49 AM   #5
itsmeb*tches
Driver
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 408
Posts: 129
Default

Very nice write up
__________________
*Alan*

2006 Sport Edition, V6, 4wd, 265/70/17 BFG, OME 885/895 with Nitro shocks, storage box w/ subwoofer, Demello flat top front bumper, smittybilt X20 winch......trying to find money to mod
itsmeb*tches is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 11:43 AM   #6
Mikestang
Don't follow this guy
 
Mikestang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The wild wild west
Posts: 4,455
Default

Cool idea, is the improvement in stopping distance noticeable?
__________________
'07 Ltd 4Runner v8 4x4 - Midland 75-822 + Wilson 5000, Garmin 276c, Magnaflow catback, Kurtfab front diff brace, 265/70/17 Goodyear ATA on Robby Gordon Signatures, Spidertrax, 3/4" BL, BajaRack, 2wd sway, Icon front, Overland Warehouse rear, Kurtfab v2.1 LCAs, MedicLinks, Slee SS lines, BB skids, Demello sliders & LCA ramps, All-Pro diff guard, TC full gusseted front, SW bumper
www.mikestang.com
Mikestang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 11:46 AM   #7
Wanderer
Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 189
Default

Why would this reduce stopping distance? Isn't this rather about reducing or preventing fade? I can already lock up (trigger ABS) my tires with the factory 4th gen brakes; how could a more powerful brake do better than that?
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 12:10 PM   #8
Mikestang
Don't follow this guy
 
Mikestang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: The wild wild west
Posts: 4,455
Default

Well then what is the improvement from larger diameter pistons? What you say makes sense.
__________________
'07 Ltd 4Runner v8 4x4 - Midland 75-822 + Wilson 5000, Garmin 276c, Magnaflow catback, Kurtfab front diff brace, 265/70/17 Goodyear ATA on Robby Gordon Signatures, Spidertrax, 3/4" BL, BajaRack, 2wd sway, Icon front, Overland Warehouse rear, Kurtfab v2.1 LCAs, MedicLinks, Slee SS lines, BB skids, Demello sliders & LCA ramps, All-Pro diff guard, TC full gusseted front, SW bumper
www.mikestang.com
Mikestang is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 02:01 PM   #9
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default

Think of it this way, with the calipers moved further from center it's like adding a cheater bar to give more torque for stopping the rotors. The larger diameter pistons give a larger clamping force for grabbing the brakes. The only reason I did this change was due to the fact of having the larger heavier tires than factory sized street tires. What I'm saying above about the brakes is what I have seen from across the internet.

As for the stopping power, I haven't really mashed on the brakes yet to test them out, plus with the pads I have don't recommend a burn in method besides drive it normally for 300-400 miles and I'm only about 75 miles into that, so I've been keeping it easy.

One of the reasons from the other thread I posted indicates that people have seen less 5th gen calipers seizing which is why they went that route, however since I live in the desert and don't hardly have rust on my truck. I liked the larger piston and rotor idea. Which isn't any different for the most part than going from the 16" to 17" 4th gen setup, except the larger pistons.
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-17-2016, 11:56 PM   #10
Wanderer
Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 189
Default

For what it's worth I was not questioning the wisdom of this upgrade, I just would not expect its benefit to be revealed in a single stopping distance test. If/when the brakes start to fade larger pistons and rotors can only be a good thing, right? If they come with a reduced probability of seizing all the better!
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2016, 06:58 AM   #11
itsmeb*tches
Driver
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: 408
Posts: 129
Default

Did you happen to check the clearance without your spacers? Did they fit behind the OEM 17 inch wheels?
__________________
*Alan*

2006 Sport Edition, V6, 4wd, 265/70/17 BFG, OME 885/895 with Nitro shocks, storage box w/ subwoofer, Demello flat top front bumper, smittybilt X20 winch......trying to find money to mod
itsmeb*tches is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-18-2016, 09:59 AM   #12
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
For what it's worth I was not questioning the wisdom of this upgrade, I just would not expect its benefit to be revealed in a single stopping distance test. If/when the brakes start to fade larger pistons and rotors can only be a good thing, right? If they come with a reduced probability of seizing all the better!
Okay, I wasn't 100% sure. Thanks for clarifying. Yeah anything larger would give you a bigger thermal capacity (rotors) to handle the heat generated. As long as your system is able to activate the ABS on a panic stop, you are correct it probably won't make much difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmeb*tches View Post
Did you happen to check the clearance without your spacers? Did they fit behind the OEM 17 inch wheels?
On the rears I did, however I didn't on the fronts. However the rotors are the same outer diameter as what is on the 4th gen that have the larger rotors so I wouldn't imagine there should be a fit issue. But I can say looking through the wheel there's clearance from the calipers and rotors to the rim.


After seeing the question about how the brakes work, I said screw it and did a panic stop test from 60mph down to 0 and she sure did stop. I heard the tires make noise from about 50-0 the ABS was working well! LOL On the bonus side of doing the ABS stop, it seems to have pushed fluid through the system that may have cleared out an air bubble as my brake pedal firmed up after doing this. I may give the brakes another flush to make sure the old fluid that was in the ABS side of things isn't hanging out in my lines now with the rest of the good stuff. Might put it back on jacks and run it in gear to get the traction system a work out too to push fluid through there.
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-22-2016, 03:37 AM   #13
gm350reratliff
Driver
 
gm350reratliff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Grants, NM
Posts: 80
Default

Thanks for the write-up! It was very detailed and well written and I appreciate that kind of stuff. I need to do this on my 4th gen. I have some slotted and dimpled rotors but they seem to get a bunch of pad build-up on them so they need to go.
__________________
Ron
2008 SR5 4X4 V6
Build thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-ge...ld-thread.html
2014 4Runner TE
Icons, Camburg UCA's, SAW coils, Ridge Grapplers, BudBuilt sliders, some other stuff. Build thread: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-ge...ld-thread.html
gm350reratliff is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-22-2016, 04:55 AM   #14
Wanderer
Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 189
Default

As it happens I need new rear pads. How are you liking the Akebono ASP? Do you still have good modulation for left-foot braking?

Last edited by Wanderer; 11-22-2016 at 05:31 AM.
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-22-2016, 01:17 PM   #15
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gm350reratliff View Post
Thanks for the write-up! It was very detailed and well written and I appreciate that kind of stuff. I need to do this on my 4th gen. I have some slotted and dimpled rotors but they seem to get a bunch of pad build-up on them so they need to go.
You are welcome! I debated about those kinds of rotors, but from the sounds of it I'm glad I went with my saving some money route and didn't go with them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
As it happens I need new rear pads. How are you liking the Akebono ASP? Do you still have good modulation for left-foot braking?
Well the pads are supposed to broken in over 300-400 miles however after about 100 I said screw this and went with a burn in routine to be done with it. The pads are working well, no complaints. I don't ever use my left foot for braking, so not sure what to tell you there. The braking responds just like OEM as far as how they are working. Hope that helps.
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-22-2016, 05:19 PM   #16
Wanderer
Driver
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Oregon
Posts: 189
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chayos00 View Post
I don't ever use my left foot for braking, so not sure what to tell you there. The braking responds just like OEM as far as how they are working. Hope that helps.
Yes, that helps. Thanks. I wouldn't want pads that are extremely grabby, ON/OFF kind of feel, and I have heard that some race compound pads are that way at least compared to OEM types.

I thought left-foot-braking was a standard off-road technique. How else do you ease over things without a crawl box?
Wanderer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-22-2016, 06:19 PM   #17
chayos00
Desert SW Roamer
 
chayos00's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Desert Southwest
Posts: 433
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderer View Post
Yes, that helps. Thanks. I wouldn't want pads that are extremely grabby, ON/OFF kind of feel, and I have heard that some race compound pads are that way at least compared to OEM types.

I thought left-foot-braking was a standard off-road technique. How else do you ease over things without a crawl box?
Oh I follow ya now, they are nothing like my wife's Infiniti Q50 that are sensitive as I put it. LOL

For the left foot braking, I haven't had to use that in a while as my ATRAC has worked very well for me going over the stuff I have encountered for the most part. Before knowing how to use it years ago I learned the brake trick from a Humvee tour we got in Sedona.
__________________
2008 SR5 4x4 V6 Salsa Red Pearl w/Taupe Interior
Mods: OW 2.0", LR UCA's, 285/70R17 Cooper STT Pro's w/Spidertrax 1.25" Spacer, Magnaflow 14586 Muffler, SpeedoHealer, Stubbs HD-SKO Sliders, Odyssey PC1500
Audio: Eclipse HU CD8445, Polk Audio db6501 6.5" Components, Polk Audio db351 3.5" in factory tweeter location, 2 Sundown SA12's @ 1200W RMS
"I'm an AMERICAN by birth and a VETERAN by choice!"
chayos00 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 11-23-2016, 06:47 AM   #18
eskimochaos
Driver
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: The Moon
Posts: 193
Default

Every pad/rotor combination would benefit from a proper bedding. I have the same upgrade with OEM (Akebono) pads and mashed on them multiple times immediately after installing. I did two sets of 60-10 hard breaking w/o engaging ABS. Then slowly cruised around to let everything cool.
eskimochaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
4th Gen Poly-Urethane Body Mounts BlackWorksInc 4th Gen 4Runner & Hilux Surf 16 12-21-2016 07:03 AM
4th gen or 5th gen Jeffy 4th Gen 4Runner & Hilux Surf 29 03-18-2016 12:29 PM
5th gen suspension on a 4th gen 4R? deadbeat son Suspension and Tires 2 02-09-2014 11:35 AM
Will 5th gen bolt-on sliders fit on a 4th gen? t-rex grrr Outfitting 5 03-18-2012 03:31 PM
5th Gen impressions bulldog 5th Gen 4Runner 13 06-28-2011 11:27 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2013 Toyota120.com