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Unread 08-16-2010, 11:45 AM   #1
07 Elephant
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Default Winch wiring with dual batteries

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Originally Posted by Ludedude View Post
Well, at first glance from that page you linked about the winch, it looks like you could be pulling up to 435 amps at 12v peak load. I think you'd want to size anything in that circuit to be able to handle at least that amount of current.

ETA: This is why you don't run winches through dual-battery circuits
Can you explain this further? This has come up in the past. I have a dual battery system running through a sure power integrator. I have a blue sea fuse box off the second battery. The sure power and second battery run all my aux lights and fridge. I have my winch directly connected to the second battery rather than the stock. I don't see any problem with this setup. Do you? Anyone?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 11:50 AM   #2
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Sure, the issue is that you're potentially going to draw the full power of your winch through the dual-battery solenoid from your primary battery/alternator. If your solenoid is the typical 150-200 amps that's in these systems, you can see the problem if your winch draws 400 amps
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:04 PM   #3
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But the isolator will only let 200 amps through the circuit right? How would it ever pull more? The battery would just give out right?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:05 PM   #4
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No the isolator will give out in a great ball of smoke and flame as you try to draw charging current from the alternator through it to your secondary battery and then on to the winch.

All accessories should be run off the second battery with the exception of the winch which should run from the primary.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:19 PM   #5
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I haven't had any trouble like that but I haven't run the winch for very long periods of time so I'm probably not pulling all the juice from the battery. I just don't want anything pulling my primary starting battery down. I have the ability to jump the primary using the secondary though a momentary switch but still.

Is everyone running their winches off the primary and I'm the only one doing it wrong or what?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 12:25 PM   #6
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If you look at the potential winch draws, you can see where the problem lies. Most of the time, most winches won't draw their full potential. However, if you ever call on it to work at maximum potential that's when you'll see an issue. If the maximum current your winch can draw exceeds the capability of your dual battery isolator you're asking for trouble.

Many people have things wired the way you do, many people never run into trouble. It's the one time you'll need it that the weakness will show up...at the very worst possible time.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 01:19 PM   #7
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if the winch ever nearly stalls on a really hard pull it will draw the nearly 400 amps. i have mine wired to the starting battery because of this, dont want to pull that much through my isolator and wiring
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Unread 08-16-2010, 02:58 PM   #8
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A winch will very rarely pull the max amps.

Also the batteries will help each other out so one should no supply all the current. So if you run a winch form the aux battery it will be advisable to close the solenoid before you start winching. This way the current on the solenoid will be limited.

A bigger concern than winching is when one battery is run down complete and the other is fresh, and the solenoid closes. This will cause a nice load over the solenoid to equalize.

With all that said I prefer the winch on the main battery and use the aux as helper. Keeps the wiring simpler and makes the path shorter between alternator and winch.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 03:37 PM   #9
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Good stuff. I hate electricity (even though I managed to get an A in my one EE class) and would never have thought about this. I had planned to wire the winch right to the aux. battery, glad I learned something today!
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Unread 08-16-2010, 05:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 Elephant View Post
But the isolator will only let 200 amps through the circuit right? How would it ever pull more? The battery would just give out right?
If the battery gives out, you are done anyway - It is unlikely your alternator would survive a 400amp draw with no capacitor (your battery) in line to help protect it, or be able to run the winch on it's own.

The 200 amp rating on most mil-spec isolation solenoids is a constant draw rating minimum. The unit can handle a substantially higher surge current, which is what typically occurs when your winch get up near it's limit. In 25 years of using dual batt systems with a 200amp solenoid, I've never been unable to use my winch due to current starvation. Of course, I would suggest using large capacity, quick charging batteries, such as the Odyssey batteries, and make sure your cables, connections, and alternator are in tip-top shape.
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Unread 08-16-2010, 10:22 PM   #11
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Well then I've got a question. I have my winch and aux battery mounted in my rear bumper. Naturally, the winch is wired to that (closer) battery. They say you should use as little length as possible when wiring your winch to the battery, right? So would it be worse for me to wire the winch all the way to the front of the truck to my starting battery? Or would the pros (not burning my separator in a time of need) out weigh the cons (not having a short distance of wire from battery to winch)?
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Unread 08-16-2010, 11:11 PM   #12
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Just keep the winch wired to your aux battery. Just make sure that you close the circuit of the solenoid before you winch. This way you don't drain the aux battery and have a higher impact when the main battery connects to it through the solenoid.

Bottomline force the 2 batteries to be connected together before you start winching, unless there is a special circumstance when you don't want to do it. Having 2 batteries feed a winch, keeps the voltage and capacity up, making it easier on the winch and the batteries.

The only time when you don't want that is when the engine is dead, and you need to winch a substantial length before you can start the engine again ( flooded engine in water crossing), then running the winch of the aux will be useful and draining the aux battery and still be able to use the main to start later. However it is likely you will have to pull plugs, etc so you might as well swap batteries for starting at the same time and then charge the dead one via the solenoid a little later.

Sometimes I think we over think it, or maybe my thinking is over thinking the thinking on the thoughts about thinking of maximizing the potential of thinking about dual batteries while thinking about winching
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Unread 08-16-2010, 11:28 PM   #13
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Ok I think I'm cool then. My batteries are always connected so long as the engine is running, and I won't be doing and winching without the engine on (other than to drop and raise the spare, which shouldn't pull much power at all). If I am in a situation where I'm winching my truck out with my engine off....just shoot me, because that means I broke it haha!
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Unread 08-17-2010, 03:29 AM   #14
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I run my winch from Aux battery and had to winch myself out of 6 mud/water holes last weekend, each one was ~40" deep and ~150-200' long. It worked out well, but a few times my winch speed was droped to a few feet per hour due to heavy clay/mud pushed with the truck as well.
I know allot of the guys here run the winch from Aux battery if they have one.
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Unread 08-17-2010, 06:11 AM   #15
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Get one of these. Best thing I've found for dual battery setups. I had this on my landcruiser and it was sweet! better IMO than the 12voltguy setup I have in the 4Runner (200amp relay system) now. I'll be putting another one of these back in the 4R.

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/388
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Unread 08-17-2010, 06:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crozhawk View Post
Get one of these. Best thing I've found for dual battery setups. I had this on my landcruiser and it was sweet! better IMO than the 12voltguy setup I have in the 4Runner (200amp relay system) now. I'll be putting another one of these back in the 4R.

http://bluesea.com/category/2/productline/388
Do you have any pics of this relay installed? I'm interested in how you configured it into your system. Thanks
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Unread 08-17-2010, 07:59 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post

Sometimes I think we over think it, or maybe my thinking is over thinking the thinking on the thoughts about thinking of maximizing the potential of thinking about dual batteries while thinking about winching
Andries are you over analyzing again...
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Unread 08-17-2010, 08:02 AM   #18
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So is there going to be a complete write up for doing thisthe proper way with parts lists ?

I'm getting more confused the more I read these threads .
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Unread 08-17-2010, 08:11 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramoine View Post
So is there going to be a complete write up for doing thisthe proper way with parts lists ?

I'm getting more confused the more I read these threads .
There are threads on this subject in the FAQ - Audio,Electronics and Electrical already....Thanks to Ed Vegas Runner

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...66&postcount=1
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Unread 08-17-2010, 08:35 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCL_68 View Post
There are threads on this subject in the FAQ - Audio,Electronics and Electrical already....Thanks to Ed Vegas Runner

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...66&postcount=1
I understand there are in the FAQ . But why are there now differing opinions on which way is the CORRECT way to wire dual batteries ?

I'm assuming that the reason this thread is ongoing means there is more than 1 way to do this set-up , ergo this discussion in the thread .

If one method is better and safer than the other , which one would that be ?

I'm just reading here and am seeing that people's opinions differ on that subject .

When the time comes for me to do this , I'd like to do it the best way the first time , that's all .
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