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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:23 PM   #1
crazydubman
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Default gaining MPG back

So i was pondering the last few weeks about how everything i have done to the truck has dropped the MPG significantly. right now im only getting about 260-270 to a tank.

The new R&P is coming to get the power back where it should be. Hopfully ill be gaining some back with that...

i have been contemplating pulling the rack and roof lights to see whether there is any MPG to gain back and swapping to the optilux 4" HIDs instead of the 500FF's on the bumper to gain the lighting back from the roof lights not being there. also considering making some inner fender liners for the front fenders to smooth out the recess that is there now in the back. also remaking the covers for the fender wells into the engine bay as when the body lift was installed it stretched them and a couple of the mounting holes can't be used anymore.

what is everyones thoughts on this? did anyone do any comparisons on mpg with and without their roof racks???? really sucks only getting 13mpg these days......

a couple of the truck for those that don't know me.





this might be a good thread for everone to add input on options and tricks to get some MPG back to these rolling bricks with love to drive
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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:38 PM   #2
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Todd,
I feel your pain. My truck is no longer my DD. I get about 13-14 mpg. On good tank I'll get 300 mi. I got a motorcycle and now enjoy 50-53 mpg commuting and running errands everyday.

Gears will get some mpg back. Probably1-2 mpg. Rack removal - maybe 1.5 mpg, YMMV so to speak. With those two changes you might be back in the 15-16 mpg range.

Truck looks hawt tho...
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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:44 PM   #3
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i guess the gears would be a good place to start as i already have them in the works. the liners and stream lining/smoothing out the fender well might help too. i would be happy getting 14-15 as that would gain me another 40 miles to the tank. i have been looking into a more streamline rack like the full roof baja or something that sits nice and tight to the roof. i would love something that was no higher than the factory bars...... would keep things tighter onto the body and have less wind resistance.

anyone know the snuggest roof rack out there??? all you really need is about an inch or two on each side to keep things from sliding off as you should be strapping everything down anyways.
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Unread 08-08-2010, 10:50 PM   #4
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I would say the Gobi is prob the lowest profile...and maybe the perkins one (seemed pretty similar).
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Unread 08-08-2010, 11:40 PM   #5
crazydubman
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ya i was just looking at the stealth gobi thread on here. might have to consider it. i mean its expensive but if you gain 2 mpg from it.... i fill up at LEAST once a week, but if i only filled up once a week, in a year i will have saved 450 bucks in gas just by gaining 2mpg back...... so in my opinion, if its a good rack and you have it for 3 years.... the money saved on gas is what you just spent on the rack. plus less stress on the motor, trans, diff etc.

i guess im at the point where i have the truck looking the way i want it to, and its time to make it work the best it can with what i have done to it. this includes mpg
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:04 AM   #6
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here is a couple pictures of the gobi stealth. might have to look into other, more slimline, lights for the rack if i get it... hmmmm.





Looking at Rob's truck it looks as though the whole rack is no taller than the factory side bars. which would mean that its sitting 5+ inches lower than my current setup which would greatly increase the aerodynamics of the truck and the roof area.





I could always look into some IPF's or another option of HID lighting thats a low profile rectangle.

does anyone know whether the mounting plate for the lights can be mounted on the underside of the tube (flipped over) so the lights can be mounted another inch or so lower?
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
ya i was just looking at the stealth gobi thread on here. might have to consider it. i mean its expensive but if you gain 2 mpg from it.... i fill up at LEAST once a week, but if i only filled up once a week, in a year i will have saved 450 bucks in gas just by gaining 2mpg back...... so in my opinion, if its a good rack and you have it for 3 years.... the money saved on gas is what you just spent on the rack. plus less stress on the motor, trans, diff etc.

i guess im at the point where i have the truck looking the way i want it to, and its time to make it work the best it can with what i have done to it. this includes mpg
Todd,
This was a large concern of mine when considering rack options, and predominantly why I chose the GOBI over BajaRack. My two primary concerns were ground clearance, and MPG loss (build quality, accessories, etc, were just icing on the cake). I didn't lose any clearance compared to the stock rack (remember, I had a hi-lift mounted to the cross beams). Since I have a full-time 4X4 system with the V8, realistically I am getting about 12-13 city and 17-18 highway with a less than 1MPG fluctuation due to the rack. It has the best ergonomics out there IMO. If you can swallow the price tag, it's well worth the investment since your needs sound similar to mine. However, you do have to weigh your options... Is a savings of $450 per year worth a $1500 investment?


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Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
does anyone know whether the mounting plate for the lights can be mounted on the underside of the tube (flipped over) so the lights can be mounted another inch or so lower?
No they cannot. You may be able to fab up some brackets to achieve this but it will be at the cost of running without the air damn (which I do not recommend).
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Last edited by Josh220; 08-09-2010 at 12:08 AM.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:21 AM   #8
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see heres the thing josh... I want to get a new rack that mounts directly to the roof as the rola is rattling around being mounted to the crossbars with the highlift mounted up there. i really want to get something thats hard mounted to the roof so that it eliminates all noise coming from it... plus it would give more options for mounting different items up there and be a full roof rack. easier mounting for side lights and work lights (flood lights) off the back of my truck so i can see what im doing when im loading up the crawler onto the trailer at night.

as far as whether its worth it... my truck, as far as i can see, will not be sold any time soon. i will probably drive it into the ground before i let it go as its suitable for a family, camping trips, towing, daily driving commuter, hauling stuff, offroad excursions etc. its a very practicle rig that is good to go for most occasions and has lots of aftermarket support. I have always been one to hang on to something if im happy with it. so if it saves me the gas money i have lost right now from my current rack setup it will be worth it for me to take the plunge and get something that will suit my needs for years to come.

when i mounted my rola without the lights, i noticed i lost at least 20 miles to a tank. add the lights and there was another few miles. every little bit helps when you start to fine tune things. 5 miles to a tank here and there adds up.

like i said... if i can get back to 300 a tank ill be super happy as that would save, more like 6-700 dollars realistically a year in just gas money. (i put over 20k on it the first year i owned it). doing a quick calculation thats another 205 gallons a year im using when getting 13 vs 15 miles to the gallon. Thats almost an extra 20 gallon tank a month in gas just because of a roof rack. so in theory i should be able to cover the cost of the rack with the gas saved in a little over 2 years....

That, along with gears, fender liners, and some other touches should help a lot. maybe even get back to over 300 a tank.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 07:50 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Josh220 View Post
No they cannot. You may be able to fab up some brackets to achieve this but it will be at the cost of running without the air damn (which I do not recommend).

josh, is the mounting plate removable at all???

looking at this picture it would seem that i could just get a spacer (whatever the tube thickness is) for the fairing to put it back where it needs to be so its still usable.



is it welded in or just bolted to the tubing?

as you can see here the 500FF's have enough spacing behind it to still sit above the tubing if moving the mounting plate is possible.



granted the 1" of height isn't really going to create any significant gains but as stated before, every little bit helps. that little bit may offset having the highlift mounted up there or having the side work lights mounted to it.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 09:11 AM   #10
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Todd the square piaa lights gobi recommends don't stick up past the top light protection bar like my ipf or the round piaa's do.

Did you ask me to take some measurements recently?

What do you need?
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Unread 08-09-2010, 10:16 AM   #11
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Take the roof rack for a month and you will know the potential on what you could gain back. I bet you lose 2-3 MPG (or more at highway speed) from those lights alone.

For fun get up to 65MPh, stick your hand out the window and straight up next to the lights I bet you can't hold it there for 30 secs.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 10:56 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 Elephant View Post
Todd the square piaa lights gobi recommends don't stick up past the top light protection bar like my ipf or the round piaa's do.

Did you ask me to take some measurements recently?

What do you need?
i hadn't asked you to take measurements recently as this is just a new senario that i have been thinking about.

but now that you know the situation

what is the measuremement from the roof to the top of the rack in the center section?

how did you go about making the mounting holes for the center feet?

did you notice any loss of mpg after you mounted the rack on your truck?

how do the PIAA lights that Gobi recomends stack up light output wise (distance pattern and lumens to your current IPF's? What bulb do they use? is it worth looking into running HID's in the PIAA's? or do they offer them in HID?

does Gobi offer an attachment for a CB antenna or a flag mount?

does the fairing come with the rack or is it an accesory to be purchased after?

the mounting bracket for the lights... is it bolted to that front tube and can it be mounted under it to drop my current lights down an inch to sit a bit more snug? or is it welded?

which company would you recommend purchasing the rack from?
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Unread 08-09-2010, 11:00 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryanmb21 View Post
Take the roof rack for a month and you will know the potential on what you could gain back. I bet you lose 2-3 MPG (or more at highway speed) from those lights alone.

For fun get up to 65MPh, stick your hand out the window and straight up next to the lights I bet you can't hold it there for 30 secs.
i am planning on taking the rack off this week actually to do some real world testing and see what i find. i average right around 265 to a tank. mind you thats reading 0 on the range function and i fill it up with over 20 gallons usually.

ya there is a ton of resistance on those lights and the rack combined. The fairing helps but unless its flush with the roof like the gobi is, its not going to keep the wind from hitting the rack. don't need to stick my hand out the window haha i can hear it when i open the moon roof. i haven't used it since day one...
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:01 PM   #14
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Aerodynamics, weight and rolling resistance is the biggest culprits to your problem. Truck weight is not likely your biggest issue though, although rotational weight can be.

Roofrack is a very good place to start as it is an easy one to address.

Also does your trucks till stand nose up? If so can you level the nose down somehow?

I assume you are not interested in lowering the truck down a bit from the 12ft high stance Nor in removing the flares, front bumper, etc.

Have you looked at belly plates to smooth out the bottom of the truck? Trucks as high as yours likely get just as much air and drag underneath as above.

Gears will help the engine not work as hard, but from my experience with the V8 won't do too much for the MPGs. Maybe look at a set of smaller street tire to o DD, apart from the MPG savings they also save your expensive truck tires for trips where you really need. Won't look badass though
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:40 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post

what is the measuremement from the roof to the top of the rack in the center section?
4.5" in the middle, 5" on the outside edge. The tallest part of the rack sits 6.75" above the roof line; this is the very front where the roof slopes downward. (Larger measurement caused more by the roof shape than the rack itself).

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Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
how did you go about making the mounting holes for the center feet?
No drilling is required to mount the rack. The middle legs have a spacer on them which rest on the rubber moulding.

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Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
did you notice any loss of mpg after you mounted the rack on your truck?
Rob can probably better answer this. I can have better measurements later this week.

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Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
how do the PIAA lights that Gobi recomends stack up light output wise (distance pattern and lumens to your current IPF's? What bulb do they use? is it worth looking into running HID's in the PIAA's? or do they offer them in HID?
Based on my experience, lights are in this order of brightness... KC/Hella, IPF, PIAA, then Lightforce. My two Lightforces have profoundly more light output then my PIAA's did, I wasn't very impressed with them. On the same note, the LF240's put out more light than 4+ of the lights you have (based on the night you flipped yours on). It may be difficult to fit the 170 strikers up there though, so an HID retrofit may be best for your needs if you want the best possible output.

Hella and PIAA both make HID versions of their rectangular lights I believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
does Gobi offer an attachment for a CB antenna or a flag mount?
No, but you can pick one up pretty much anywhere (Radioshack, etc).

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Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
does the fairing come with the rack or is it an accesory to be purchased after?
Yes, it comes with the rack.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazydubman View Post
the mounting bracket for the lights... is it bolted to that front tube and can it be mounted under it to drop my current lights down an inch to sit a bit more snug? or is it welded?

which company would you recommend purchasing the rack from?
The tabs are welded, then the light brackets sit on top of them via bolts (In the form of spacers to allow room for the fairing brackets). You may be able to modify this with added brackets of your own, but you may have to flip them backwards and have the lights sit behind the rack somehow rather than between the bars. If you drop them an inch on their current mounting plates the fairing will not fit properly. Without a perfect snug fit of the fairing, the rack is named "the noise maker".
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Unread 08-09-2010, 12:50 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Hella and PIAA both make HID versions of their rectangular lights I believe.
I've been thinking of getting the Gobi steath. And was gonna mount these lights on the rack:



http://www.piaa.com/Lamps/Lamp-pages/2100hid.html
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Unread 08-09-2010, 01:17 PM   #17
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Aerodynamics, weight and rolling resistance is the biggest culprits to your problem. Truck weight is not likely your biggest issue though, although rotational weight can be.

lighter tires are definitely on the list for my next set although not much is going to be lighter than the TG's that are on it now. plus i already have alloy wheels so not much further weight savings there

Roofrack is a very good place to start as it is an easy one to address.

thats kinda what i was thinking as i was going to address it anyways being that i wanted one that was solid mounted directly to the roof cause im tired of the vibration noise im getting from it.

Also does your trucks till stand nose up? If so can you level the nose down somehow?

I assume you are not interested in lowering the truck down a bit from the 12ft high stance Nor in removing the flares, front bumper, etc.

i have not adjusted the height yet but may mess with that this week as well as i can crank the front down about 1.5-2" probably. the fenders will be getting liners so that will help some with the parachute affect they are having now on the front end. it was really noticable the first time i drove it when heading to vegas. the head winds really were slowing the truck down.

Have you looked at belly plates to smooth out the bottom of the truck? Trucks as high as yours likely get just as much air and drag underneath as above.

not sure whether you noticed or not but when the bumper was built i already have an aluminum skid that extends back to the B pillar/trans mount. the whole alum sheet is just under 8ft long

Gears will help the engine not work as hard, but from my experience with the V8 won't do too much for the MPGs. Maybe look at a set of smaller street tire to o DD, apart from the MPG savings they also save your expensive truck tires for trips where you really need. Won't look badass though

this is true. although i don't think that im going to get much lighter than the TG's that i have now. im only running 36 lbs of pressure so maybe ill up it to 40 or 45. max i think is 60psi or something.
its all a step by step but every little bit helps for sure.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 01:25 PM   #18
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I just got a Bajarack with light bar.... I think the loss in MPG's from the rack is minimal. I would work on the bumper situation and try to seal up those holes to create a smooth flow of air.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 01:32 PM   #19
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im thinking with how high the sides sit on the bumper the addition of plating on the openings is only going to help minimal. seeing as the sheet metal is right behind it and site at the same height. that may be something i address but there are other concerns that i think might be more beneficial first. the fender liners for sure will help more than the plating on the bumper i feel.

its on the list but at the very end of it. would be nice to test something out and see what happens. maybe ill cut out some plates, drill some holes on the edges, and use some of my huge zipties from work and mount them in those openings. take it for a drive down the freeway and see whether i feel a difference or not.

would be worth a shot for sure.

as i said with the rack i lost about 20+miles per tank. and the front end i lost a little more overall. that was an acceptable loss as its what i wanted for the front end. just need to fine tune things and see what happens with each step i take.
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Unread 08-09-2010, 02:17 PM   #20
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Quote:
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4.5" in the middle, 5" on the outside edge. The tallest part of the rack sits 6.75" above the roof line; this is the very front where the roof slopes downward. (Larger measurement caused more by the roof shape than the rack itself).



No drilling is required to mount the rack. The middle legs have a spacer on them which rest on the rubber moulding.



Rob can probably better answer this. I can have better measurements later this week.



Based on my experience, lights are in this order of brightness... KC/Hella, IPF, PIAA, then Lightforce. My two Lightforces have profoundly more light output then my PIAA's did, I wasn't very impressed with them. On the same note, the LF240's put out more light than 4+ of the lights you have (based on the night you flipped yours on). It may be difficult to fit the 170 strikers up there though, so an HID retrofit may be best for your needs if you want the best possible output.

Hella and PIAA both make HID versions of their rectangular lights I believe.



No, but you can pick one up pretty much anywhere (Radioshack, etc).



Yes, it comes with the rack.



The tabs are welded, then the light brackets sit on top of them via bolts (In the form of spacers to allow room for the fairing brackets). You may be able to modify this with added brackets of your own, but you may have to flip them backwards and have the lights sit behind the rack somehow rather than between the bars. If you drop them an inch on their current mounting plates the fairing will not fit properly. Without a perfect snug fit of the fairing, the rack is named "the noise maker".
No loss of mpg from the rack that I could tell. My fat tires took care of that years ago.

The rack is bent to follow the roof line. That helps it from sticking up so high at the front of the rack. The other racks don't do this and their profile is much higher.

My ipf lights come with 55w and 100w bulbs. I'm running 100w bulbs with spot reflectors.

Don't put your cb antenna on the roof. It's too high. Mount it to your front bumper.

Order directly from gobi.
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