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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:18 PM   #1
A10MileHusker
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Default SAS vs RCV Axles

Not sure if this has been discussed yet and I did a search but didn't come up with much.

Right now, I'm thinking about doing a SAS with my 4Runner but then the thought came in of just buying the RCV axles. I seem to go through CVs like its my job.

What are the pros and cons with both of these options?

Is SAS THAT much better than IFS? (I've only had IFS)

I know its pretty vague but any input/suggestions are greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #2
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Is there a problem with your setup that cv's are going so fast?

I would be hesitant to upgrade axles as you are moving the weak link elsewhere that may be much harder to get to and/or more expensive to repair.

SAS is not worth it just for this reason

SFA is simple and durable. However, retrofitting is something else and if you don't like working on cv's now, I doubt you will enjoy r&d on getting everything right on your truck with a SAS.
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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:43 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruiserhead View Post
Is there a problem with your setup that cv's are going so fast?

I would be hesitant to upgrade axles as you are moving the weak link elsewhere that may be much harder to get to and/or more expensive to repair.

SAS is not worth it just for this reason

SFA is simple and durable. However, retrofitting is something else and if you don't like working on cv's now, I doubt you will enjoy r&d on getting everything right on your truck with a SAS.
I'm fairly certain there isn't anything wrong with the setup but they just seem to break...I think I like the skinny pedal too much haha.

And I love working on my rig and plus my buddy is a genius when it comes to this stuff. But yes it seems like a lot can go wrong with the retrofit.

The thing with RCV is that you have a lifetime warranty on them so its a one time purchase.



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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:46 PM   #4
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I'm not a solid axle expert AT ALL... so i don't wanna speak for those who have swapped

but the IFS vs Solid has been compaired before many times

in this day and age of IFS design it has more to do with articulation in the most extreme then it does with durability
The IFS on these trucks is VERY strong ...when wheeled like you have an IFS truck

IMHOP...
if your pushing well beyond reason... it WILL break ...but, dont think an SAS truck won't break a u-joint either
or diff spiders if it's unlocked
I've seen both happen out on the trail... while i'm on the org. CVs and 35"s with 120k miles

So... That beeing said... you may want to look at your driving style before you spend any money ...no offence
...spinning wheels that get traction break things
and bound open diffs that let go ...break things

with your 4.88 gears you should be able to "creep" over anything you get a tire on
not saying you are a hot rod... i've never seen you drive

If you aren't locked front or rear... i'd look into that first
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Unread 01-05-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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No offense taken haha

I do know there are times when I've given it too much gas which resulted in breaking one so ya I do agree with that and have changed it up a bit.

I know I sound like a newb which isn't too far off as this is my first build and wheeler rig.

As you mentioned after the 488s I have yet to break one.

I'm only asking this because I'm researching my options

Thanks for the help so far!



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Unread 01-05-2013, 10:37 PM   #6
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Hop on rock solid toys and talk to those guys.

sent from a Galaxy SIII...
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Unread 01-05-2013, 10:39 PM   #7
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don't consider a SAS unless you have the means to do it right, it takes a lot of effort. If done right, you'll have much more capability and durability with a SFA but the cost is significant.

If you stay with smaller wheels and tires, you could probably do a built 44 with 35s or smaller and survive with wheeling the way you describe. you're still looking at $10-15k unless you do all the work yourself. check out rocksolidtoys.com, you'll get a lot of good advice there on the SFA option.

unless you want to fork out the dinero for a SAS, RCVs might be a good option. but I suspect with your current setup, you'll just be moving the weak point to somewhere else in the drive train. That's why guys that want to really wheel hard, try to strengthen (overkill) just about everything in the drivetrain from the t-case out to the hubs.

....sorry, this post probably gave you more questions than answers
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Unread 01-06-2013, 01:08 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crozhawk View Post
don't consider a SAS unless you have the means to do it right, it takes a lot of effort. If done right, you'll have much more capability and durability with a SFA but the cost is significant.

If you stay with smaller wheels and tires, you could probably do a built 44 with 35s or smaller and survive with wheeling the way you describe. you're still looking at $10-15k unless you do all the work yourself. check out rocksolidtoys.com, you'll get a lot of good advice there on the SFA option.

unless you want to fork out the dinero for a SAS, RCVs might be a good option. but I suspect with your current setup, you'll just be moving the weak point to somewhere else in the drive train. That's why guys that want to really wheel hard, try to strengthen (overkill) just about everything in the drivetrain from the t-case out to the hubs.

....sorry, this post probably gave you more questions than answers
Roams, actually you gave me more direction. Thank you!

Josh has been telling me about getting CVs cyro'd and I am looking into that as well.

If anyone else has any other info please let me know!

Thanks guys!
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Unread 01-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #9
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You could also benefit from getting a crawler box. Instead of having to gas it through obstacles, you'll have more control navigating through, potentially decreasing the chances of breaking a CV. as for CVs, the next week link in an IFS would be your gears. Much easier to change out a CV on the trails then a busted front ring gear.
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Unread 01-06-2013, 03:13 PM   #10
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I think it is pretty well covered above. in the replies.

SAS certainly is much stronger than IFS, if done right. Not only the driveline, but also the steering is stronger. However to do it right is very pricey. You also need to consider that with SAS you loose steering feel to an extend (especially fast on road), and you loose some electronics, as i'm not aware of anyone who has solved the ABS sensor issue on the front axle with SAS.

So you need to consider the cost and trade offs vs the advantage over IFS. For big tires and lots of rocks SAS will certainly be much more durable and capable on the long run. For high speed trails and everyday driving you will however give up something (but this doesn't seem to be your target).

Before going to SAS I would consider locking the axles (are you locked in the front and back?) I found that makes a huge difference in wheel spin on tricky rock trails, and will save your driveline a lot. Next consider a crawler box, which will be logical with SAS anyway.
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Unread 01-07-2013, 07:09 PM   #11
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Huh? What sensor issue is this? I would assume you use a bracket similar to the rear axles for the wheel speed sensor and either use an existing tone ring that matches OEM or have one machined and pressed on?
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Unread 01-07-2013, 08:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackWorksInc View Post
Huh? What sensor issue is this? I would assume you use a bracket similar to the rear axles for the wheel speed sensor and either use an existing tone ring that matches OEM or have one machined and pressed on?
the front "tone ring" is the wheel bearing
it's polarized so the ATRAC knows when you are going forward or backwards and exactly how much

and... AFAIK
this is also a problem because you can't free wheel the hub
the bearing has to be spinning with the axle
thats one reason for the ADD
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Unread 01-08-2013, 12:28 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shabaka View Post
the front "tone ring" is the wheel bearing
it's polarized so the ATRAC knows when you are going forward or backwards and exactly how much

and... AFAIK
this is also a problem because you can't free wheel the hub
the bearing has to be spinning with the axle
thats one reason for the ADD
I didn't realize Toyota had done that on the 4Runners. I knew we did those type of bearings on other models.
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Unread 01-08-2013, 01:10 AM   #14
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The ABS sensor ring on the 4Runner is much more complex than the older tone rings. Part of thsi si for VSC, but also ATRAC and to sense direction as well as speed. It is mounted on the hub and there for both 2WD and 4WD models.

I have not seen anyone who has solved this issue with a SAS. Many have made rear axles that utilizes the rear hub and saves the ABS sensor, but non on the front I'm aware off.
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