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Unread 03-01-2013, 08:34 AM   #1
practical
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Default P/N for 4th Gen Rear Torsen in Hilux Surf

Can anybody get the p/n for the Torsen Rear differential carrier that was offered as an option on the 2003 JDM Hilux Surf SSR-G with the 5VZ-FE V6? I am not talking about the center Torsen, which all 4th gen 4x4's had. Does anybody know the "axle code" on the vehicle placard that indicates the rear Torsen? Is is a Type 1 Torsen or a Type 2 (helical) Torsen? Does it come with different stub axles, bearings, etc. compared to the 3.73:1 US rear end? (not sure if the final drive in the JDM Hilux Surf is the same). Any pictures? Anybody have one for sale?
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Unread 03-01-2013, 08:49 AM   #2
Mike07SE
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To be blunt, I think you best answer here for a Torsen type rear differential would be to get the Detroit Truetrac differential (TT 9138610), which also happens to be a helical type differential.
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Performance: Doug Thorley Long Tube Headers | TRD CAI | 4.56 ARB Front / True Trac Rear
Off Road: Fr: Bilstein 6112 w/1/2" Toytec Spacer / Rr: MetalTech Long Travel | JBA UCA | Toytec 1" Body Lift | Goodyear Duratrac 285/70R17 | Rear Diff Breather Mod
Stereo: 3.5" Tweeter Mod | Kenwood DNX9980HD
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Unread 03-01-2013, 09:46 AM   #3
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Mike07SE, I guess you mean 913A610 (4th character is an "A"). This is listed as fitting the 2007-09 4Runner on Summit Racing's site but not in the Eaton application guide.

http://www.eaton.com/ecm/groups/publ.../ct_128302.pdf

In any case, as you mention, the TrueTrac is a helical design. The Toyota one might be a Torsen type 1 axial design. Toyota has used Torsen Type 1 in other RWD applications (the Celica ST185 4WD Turbo comes to mind).

I'd like to know what evidence there is that the TrueTrac 913A610 fits an '08 US-market 4Runner. Has anybody made this install in any '03-'09 model?

But I'd also like to know what type of Torsen came optional in the '03 JDM Hilux Surf, its P/N, and a potential source for a new or used one.
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Unread 03-01-2013, 11:32 AM   #4
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It has been confirmed as several members have installed it. I myself have this number on hand to do it as well. Here's a link to one job that was done by shabaka.

http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showt...light=truetrac
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2007 4Runner Sport Edition V6 4X4
Performance: Doug Thorley Long Tube Headers | TRD CAI | 4.56 ARB Front / True Trac Rear
Off Road: Fr: Bilstein 6112 w/1/2" Toytec Spacer / Rr: MetalTech Long Travel | JBA UCA | Toytec 1" Body Lift | Goodyear Duratrac 285/70R17 | Rear Diff Breather Mod
Stereo: 3.5" Tweeter Mod | Kenwood DNX9980HD
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Unread 03-01-2013, 02:32 PM   #5
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Nice to hear that the Truetrac 913A610 will fit. It sounds like a more straightforward solution than sourcing the Toyota LSD from the JDM Hilux Surf.

Another issue is whether the Toyota one is actually a Torsen or a conventional plate-type LSD. I was basing the Torsen assumption on the the signature file on the Yotatech Board of an American living in Japan driving a 2003 SSR-G.

Although it might not be a Torsen, I am quite sure that the JDM 4h gen came with an optional LSD of some kind, and that the axle code is A04B. See the pic of the placard on this page:

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~kamasuzu/grn215.htm

I was hoping that readers in Australia or other RHD countries that see a lot of JDM vehicles would have access to JDM parts catalogs or dismantled vehicles and could shed some light on what type of LSD is in the JDM 4th gen. Hilux Surf.
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Unread 03-01-2013, 04:38 PM   #6
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I found a parts catalog online. I think the LSD version differential carrier p/n is 41302-35040. It might be a plate diff because it along with it comes a warning plate to use LSD lubricant.

http://toyotamarket.ru/jp/671170/004/2/4101/1/41302/

On the up side, it is really cheap, less than $200!

http://toyota.epc-data.com/hilux_sur...is/4101/41302/

This has got to the be cheapest LSD for a 4Runner.
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Unread 03-01-2013, 09:57 PM   #7
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the question is what engine you have...?
I assume you are in Australia ...do you have the 4.0l v6 or the 3.4l ???

if you have the the 3.4l then you could fit the TOYOTA part ...but it is a type 1 plate
so not the best performance although $200 is quite cheap!!!

the truetrac is a killer dif' but is twice+ the cost

if you DO have the 1GR-FE ...and ATRAC ...I would skip that plate Torsen
it's not likely to be very effective with that combo ...unlike the helical Torsens are
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. . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . Yukon 4.88, ARB locker, Truetrac LSD, Camburg UCA, Custom Rear LCA, Energy Suspension
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Unread 03-01-2013, 10:12 PM   #8
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also to clarify...
that axle code likely means 8" - Axle Ratio - Open

the coding on the newer trucks has changed a bit...
quite a bit of debate/miss information on the actual gear ratio part of the code
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. . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . Yukon 4.88, ARB locker, Truetrac LSD, Camburg UCA, Custom Rear LCA, Energy Suspension
.... .. .... ... ..... ... .. ...Braille dual battery, Bulldog ALPHA 9300, Viking 3/8 rope, Gunnebo hook, BajaRack, Slimlites

.... .. .... ... ..... ... .. ...build & gallery

Last edited by shabaka; 03-01-2013 at 10:26 PM.
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Unread 03-02-2013, 06:29 AM   #9
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I'm in the US. The LSD would be for a 2008 4x4 V6.

I happened to know that early 4th gen JDM Surfs had a rear LSD. At this time, I believe the JDM 4x4 Surfs did not have any brake-engagement type of traction control, and definitely no stability control.

Because this American guy who lived in Japan at the time stated that the JDM rear LSD in the 2003 SSR-G was a Torsen, I was led down that path. But, yes, it is a plate diff which explains its low price. Where they exist (Celica All-Trac Turbo, Lexus RX300), the Toyota and Lexus Torsen diffs are listed with prices upward of $2,000.

I defer to your personal experience indicating that the Truetrac works well with the onboard electronics. By proactively proportioning torque between the wheels it will delay the engagement of the traction control. But there is still one situation where I think the Torsen might have a downside:

Say one rear wheel is in the air and the other one has traction. With the open diff, the traction control will brake the free wheel so the traction wheel can move. With a torque-sensing diff and brake based traction control, torque will be directed to the wheel that is being braked because torque flows to where there is most resistance. This means that more heat is being generated in the brakes of the free wheel than with an open differential. With a bias ratio of 1.3 - 1.5 (typical for a helical Torsen), the brakes on the free wheel will have to dissipate 30% - 50% more heat than with an open differential to get the truck moving. Do these calculations make sense?
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Unread 03-02-2013, 07:49 AM   #10
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Well I'm not a mechanical engineer
So this could be WAY off...

I've experienced two things
1) Torque Transfer...
the ATRAC can't/won't hold a tire for long ...like less then a full second
...it more often pulses the in air, free spinning tire in an attempt to create the torque transfer
2) Torque Bias...
the TrueTrac only works off of a reference torque so 0x2.5=0 with the free spinning tire being zero, the TrueTrac "fails"

...but if you add a little preload or constant "traction" such as applying a little bit of the E-brake
The Torsen always has something to multiply

Now... Instead of dragging the brake down the entire trail, let the ATRAC run the brakes and you have a traction solution almost as positive as a fully locked axle
(...you can still drag a touch of E-brake for even more traction)

Also... I have overheated DAC and ATRAC before with open diffs and 32"s
but I haven't yet over heated since installing the TrueTrac ...running the same trails

Also, also... if I'm on a trail where I'm "3-wheeling" I'm also in 4lo
so there is even more applied torque which is great for the TrueTrac

Hope that answers your question on hot brakes
And to all others... Correct me were I'm wrong with this
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. . . . . . . . . . . .. .. .. . Yukon 4.88, ARB locker, Truetrac LSD, Camburg UCA, Custom Rear LCA, Energy Suspension
.... .. .... ... ..... ... .. ...Braille dual battery, Bulldog ALPHA 9300, Viking 3/8 rope, Gunnebo hook, BajaRack, Slimlites

.... .. .... ... ..... ... .. ...build & gallery
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Unread 03-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #11
Patrickclark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by practical View Post
I found a parts catalog online. I think the LSD version differential carrier p/n is 41302-35040. It might be a plate car accessories diff because it along with it comes a warning plate to use LSD lubricant.

http://toyotamarket.ru/jp/671170/004/2/4101/1/41302/

On the up side, it is really cheap, less than $200!

http://toyota.epc-data.com/hilux_sur...is/4101/41302/

This has got to the be cheapest LSD for a 4Runner.
I have checked those links. Lubricant is really cheap but I am not sure about performance.

Last edited by Patrickclark; 03-04-2013 at 08:48 AM.
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Unread 03-04-2013, 01:35 PM   #12
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If you wanted a greater percent lock, you could probably add extra clutch disks.
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