Toyota 120 Platforms Forum
Google only search Toyota120

Go Back   Toyota 120 Platforms Forum > Shared tech > Suspension and Tires

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 12-16-2009, 05:14 AM   #1
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Lightbulb Land Cruiser coils on 4Runner

Having a heavy CBI on the back plus allot of gear inside make my truck sag allot under full load. Now having an expedition Trailer it making things worse as more weight coming to the back.

I was researching airbag option and Rob's experience with Airlift 1000 bags from LC100/LX470 were a good breakthrough in this direction.
Meanwhile I start questioning myself if airbags from LC00 can be used on taller 4Runner coils, may be LC100 coils can be used on 4Runner as well...???

Unfortunatelly OME, even 896, are very short coils if you are looking for a big articulation. 895 and 896 are 390mm free stand. Mine compressed to 280mm when truck is not loaded standing on the ground. This 110mm under the rate of 318lbs/in.

I looked into LC 863, 864, 865 coils for LC100. To get full data I called ARB last night and asked them if those coils would work on 4Runner and what are their specs. I have specs at my home and I can post them up tonight. Meanwhile LC100 coils are 480mm tall in free height position. They are not that hard as rate is between 220 and 320lbs (details will follow) which also can help with articulation. Mainly that they are much taller from the begining and this means more axle drop.

I'm running 896 on my truck and to get it level with my front I'm using upper bucket drop of 2", still a little nose up, so I'm thinking 2.5-3" is the length I'm missing on my 896s.

One thing which is different in 896 and 864 is the coil diameter. 4Runner coils (896) is 6.5" in diameter while LC100 (864) is 7". Major question is right here - would this 1/2" makes a difference of being not fitted or would it still be Ok...??? As I remember on tp bucket we had some free play around and 7" might have a tight fit. On the bottom it may or may not be an issue. ARB, I was expecting something like that, told me that they never tried and they would never tell anyone that they would fit, its all to the customer if he wants to try it.

I kknow some guys here have LC80 and LC100 as well as 4Runners (Dave is one of them). If you guys have coils sitting somewhere from both vehicles, could you try to compare and see if they would fit? LC 80 and LC100 are using same coils on the rear.

Any other persons thought and/or opinion is welcome and the topic is open for discussion. Please post up your thoughts and ideas...
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 11:37 AM   #2
NoWayOut
Driver
 
NoWayOut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 204
Default

I know some guys were using LC coils on the 3rd gen 4runners not sure which ones but Sonoran Steel was selling them in his packages for the 3rd gens. Maybe you can pull some info from his site.
__________________
Jay
2008 V8 Sport
Searching
NoWayOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 12:12 PM   #3
Joel
Admin
 
Joel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: 39.5 N 119.86 W
Posts: 1,837
Default

Why not just call Coil Spring Specialties and order exactly what you need?
It's going to be a bear to get that (almost) 19" spring in, even with the shocks and swaybar removed. The space is ~18" if I remember right.
__________________
Joel
KE7RTX
http://no-ip.com

2004 Limited 4WD V8
Mods.
Joel is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 12:18 PM   #4
07 Elephant
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel View Post
Why not just call Coil Spring Specialties and order exactly what you need?
It's going to be a bear to get that (almost) 19" spring in, even with the shocks and swaybar removed. The space is ~18" if I remember right.
Joel you beat me to it. I was just thinking about Alex's question and thought he should call custom coil specialist and ask them what's what.

Alex you could duplicate my coil setup and add 200 lbs to the variable load rate and be where you want to be. So that would be a 450 - 700 lb variable load rate with +2.5 inches over stock length and the lc air lift air bags. Should work perfect for your trailer and truck. My coils cost $200 us. If you want to set it up I'll help with shipping it to you.
  Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 12:22 PM   #5
07 Elephant
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex one more thing. I can measure things if you want. I have a small tire so ground to fender heigth won't help but I can measure other things under there if it will help you. Just let me know.
  Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 02:03 PM   #6
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel View Post
Why not just call Coil Spring Specialties and order exactly what you need?
It's going to be a bear to get that (almost) 19" spring in, even with the shocks and swaybar removed. The space is ~18" if I remember right.
By the time I'll get the coils here in Canada from CSS they will run me $1k.

I have now 896s which are 15.5" and 2" drop of upper mount => 17.5" and I still can drop my axle without a shock and connected sway-bar for another 3-4", but the coil is falling off. So there is a room for up to 22" in my setup.
P.S. I have custom control arms....
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 02:08 PM   #7
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 Elephant View Post
Joel you beat me to it. I was just thinking about Alex's question and thought he should call custom coil specialist and ask them what's what.

Alex you could duplicate my coil setup and add 200 lbs to the variable load rate and be where you want to be. So that would be a 450 - 700 lb variable load rate with +2.5 inches over stock length and the lc air lift air bags. Should work perfect for your trailer and truck. My coils cost $200 us. If you want to set it up I'll help with shipping it to you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 Elephant View Post
Alex one more thing. I can measure things if you want. I have a small tire so ground to fender heigth won't help but I can measure other things under there if it will help you. Just let me know.
Good to know. Thank you. It definitely can help. Let me see the options and I'll get back to you....
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 03:09 PM   #8
bulldog
Admin
 
bulldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 12,319
Default

When I checked the outer diameter of the LC coils wont fit the 4Runner. SO you can either add spacers to your coils or have a custom set made.

Not sure why it would be that expensive to get CSS coils to your place though.
__________________
andries
K9BDG

2019 Low Rider
bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 05:13 PM   #9
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
When I checked the outer diameter of the LC coils wont fit the 4Runner. SO you can either add spacers to your coils or have a custom set made.

Not sure why it would be that expensive to get CSS coils to your place though.
Spacers are not good as they are solid and not affecting articulations. Saying 3" spacer is equivalent to nearly 4" of coil at ~260 coil rate. This means that that spacer just eat 1" of your potential downtravel...

Last time I ordered from them it was $400 for the coils, $130 shipping => $600CDN, $75 brokerage fees, $45 duties and customs, $100 taxes == $900

----------

Andries, when you checked the LC coils which ones have you been looking for and what exactly didn't fit? They are only 1/2" larger in diameter....
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"

Last edited by AlexJet; 12-17-2009 at 04:55 AM.
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-16-2009, 05:33 PM   #10
bulldog
Admin
 
bulldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 12,319
Default

The bucket on the top of the frame looked too tight and they looked liked they will slip of the cone as well. I did not check the lower diameter, but I'm sure ARB can give it to you. Lower ht einside diameter is the important one.

Why did CSS charge you $400 for coils?? I normally pay a bit over $200 for a pair +$20 or so shipping.

What are the specs you are looking for free height and spring rate?

As reference my rear coils are 320lb/in and 18.25" free height. They do give a bit more lift than I would have ideally liked, but then again they work perfect when loaded with water and gas cans, etc. I do carry my tools, some spares, recovery gear and some camping gear in the drawers all the time. Fridge and steel fridge slide also help to weigh it down with the 35 Toyo spare and hi-lift.
__________________
andries
K9BDG

2019 Low Rider
bulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2009, 04:36 AM   #11
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldog View Post
The bucket on the top of the frame looked too tight and they looked liked they will slip of the cone as well. I did not check the lower diameter, but I'm sure ARB can give it to you. Lower ht einside diameter is the important one.

Why did CSS charge you $400 for coils?? I normally pay a bit over $200 for a pair +$20 or so shipping.

What are the specs you are looking for free height and spring rate?

As reference my rear coils are 320lb/in and 18.25" free height. They do give a bit more lift than I would have ideally liked, but then again they work perfect when loaded with water and gas cans, etc. I do carry my tools, some spares, recovery gear and some camping gear in the drawers all the time. Fridge and steel fridge slide also help to weigh it down with the 35 Toyo spare and hi-lift.
I have no idea why they charged me $400...??? It was ~2 years ago. Shipping of $20 is myust be within US. If they ship to Canada with UPS and that what they did last time it jucks up the price to $130, not counting all those #%#$ fees I have to pay UPS here for brokeragee and duties. If the items shipped with US Postal Service, they picked-up by Canada Post here and Canada Post only charges $5 handling fee and all aplicable taxes of $13%. Saying for $200 coils with $50 shipping =~$300CDN it will be only $5+$40=$45.

As of the specs, I'm pretty happy with my 896s, they just too short for me. I would of like them to be 19" long (485mm) and at about 280 rate
At 280 rate my compression under the load will be 4.93" and it would give me empty stand at 360mm vs 280 I have now which 3" higher that what I have now on the coil or 1" higher overall of my current setup.
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2009, 04:50 AM   #12
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

As I promissed some data for LC80/100 coils:

860 - 480mm - 220lbs/in --- +2" 0lbs GVW LC80, LC100 ('00-'07)
862 - 460mm - 240lbs/in --- +0.75" 0lbs GVW LC80
863 - 480mm - 250lbs/in --- +2" 440lbs GVW LC80, +3" 440lbs GVW LC100 ('00-'07)
863J - 505mm - 265lbs/in --- +3" 440lbs GVW LC80
864 - 480mm - 320lbs/in --- +1.5" 880lbs GVW LC80, 440lbs GVW LC100 ('98-'00)
865 - 460mm - 220lbs/in --- +1.5" 0lbs GVW LC100 ('98-'00)

Compare vs. 896:

860 - +1.5"
862 - +1.35"
863 - +2.3"
863J - +3.5"
864 - +3.5
865 - +0.8"
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2009, 10:43 AM   #13
07 Elephant
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Alex now that you know the specs of the lc coils what are you thinking you are going to do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexJet View Post
As I promissed some data for LC80/100 coils:

860 - 480mm - 220lbs/in --- +2" 0lbs GVW LC80, LC100 ('00-'07)
862 - 460mm - 240lbs/in --- +0.75" 0lbs GVW LC80
863 - 480mm - 250lbs/in --- +2" 440lbs GVW LC80, +3" 440lbs GVW LC100 ('00-'07)
863J - 505mm - 265lbs/in --- +3" 440lbs GVW LC80
864 - 480mm - 320lbs/in --- +1.5" 880lbs GVW LC80, 440lbs GVW LC100 ('98-'00)
865 - 460mm - 220lbs/in --- +1.5" 0lbs GVW LC100 ('98-'00)

Compare vs. 896:

860 - +1.5"
862 - +1.35"
863 - +2.3"
863J - +3.5"
864 - +3.5
865 - +0.8"
  Reply With Quote
Unread 12-17-2009, 02:13 PM   #14
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 07 Elephant View Post
Alex now that you know the specs of the lc coils what are you thinking you are going to do?
I wish I can find someone selling 863 or 864, so I can see how would they perform or someone having a stock set of LC80 or100 coils who can donate or let me borrow a coil for a period of time to see the fitment issue.
As Andries mentioned it may be challenging to put them on, but may be with some skills still doable. I just don't want to wais $$ on brand new OME coils to find out that I need to do too much work to make them work (which is still possible for me, but it may take a long run - long term solution).
BTW, I think I'll still add airbags doesn't matter what coils would I have.
Meanwhile I found ProComp coils from 6" lift, but can't get their rate. They are 480mm long and looks like ~220-240lbs. My call to ProComp finished with the phrase: "they are 150 over stock". What 150...load or rate...rep didn't know???
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 12-22-2009, 05:52 AM   #15
AlexJet
Old Timer
 
AlexJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 4,060
Default

Got a reply from CSS.
They say that coils will run ~$300 for pair, but they need additional weight of the truck compare to stock and lift compare to stock. I was trying to tell them specs of the coils, but they insist on additional weight and lift. I have no idea of how much additional weight I have as I never measured my stock weight... As of the lift, I can do it, but why they doesn't want to take coil specs like free height, rate, etc... Does everybody had such experience with them? I also compare what I want to OME 896s, but on other side was the same answer - compare to stock....

I found some used ProComps 5.5" lift rear coils from FJ. They are 480mm of free height with unknown rate. I might try them out this Christmass holidays season and see what rate are they and how would they perform. As I know that my 896 are compressed to 280mm after installed on the truck which menas they did compressed 4.3" and rating of 318lbs/in gives me 1377lbs of weight on each coil. I hope I can do same measurements for ProComp unless someone knows their rate before I start experimenting.

The biggest negative factor is that its beloow zero outside and its pretty cold...

At the end of the day I have 1.5" Daystar rear coil spacer in my basement if nothing would work out...
__________________
'05 4Runner V6 Limited --- Custom 5" LT; 35"; ARB, CBI; Snorkel; etc...
'16 4Runner Limited --- Daily Driver; 3"; 33", Snorkel
'74 FJ40 --- 5"; 35", Snorkel, etc...
'09 Custom Expedition Trailer --- 35"
AlexJet is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
6th Annual Pismo 4runner Jamboree, Oct. 10-12th, 2008 slosurfer Meeting, Trail run and Expedition planning 79 10-09-2008 04:05 PM
Oceano Dunes, CA Oct. 12th-14th slosurfer Meeting, Trail run and Expedition planning 79 10-14-2007 07:20 PM
4Runner custom rear Deaver coils and Bilstein shocks feedback thread bulldog Suspension and Tires 11 10-04-2006 04:36 PM
4Runner custom rear CS coils and OME/Revtek shocks feedback thread bulldog Suspension and Tires 3 05-07-2006 04:41 PM
4Runner suspension options FAQ bulldog Suspension and Tires 3 04-12-2006 06:53 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005-2013 Toyota120.com