35s on a 4Runner

[bulldog]

Since a lot of people have bugged I will post up what is going on at the moment. SO far it is still an experiment and a lot of work still needs to be done.

I will do a proper write up and probably start a new thread (clean) when it is all said and done. This way this thread can be used for discussion, and there will be something shorter with concentrated tech and updated info making it easier to follow.

As we all know it is one thing to fit something and a nother to make it work for wheeling. AT this point I believe 35s can be made to work for wheeling without exotic steps (like bracket or long travel suspension with galss fenders). However I do have to question the usefullness of it for a daily driver as some of the compromises might not be suitable for folks doing lots of miles DD. My aim is to only commute with once a week or 2 weeks, not everyday.

So before I blah blah more, here are some pics. Then I will talk more about current mods, things still to be done and observations.

My old Revos 32s vs Toyos 35s


Side profile


Front test




Eyes bigger than wheelwells??

[bulldog]

Mods I have done:
- SUspension DR COs on the front and custome coils with OME 71 rear shocks
- 1.5" bodylift
- Dropped rear bumpstops 3/4"
- Wabfab rear swaybar links, and Kurtfab rear links
- SW front bumper and 4x4labs rear bumper
- 4x4labs sliders and custom skid, also Ramsey 9500 winch(not totally relevant here)
- Bodymount frame chopped
- Rear and front mudflaps removed
- Front flare and fender trimmed
- Front inner fender liner trimmed and pinch weld hammered down.
- Replaced all rotors with frozen rotors and OEM pads
- 4.56 gears adn ARB lockers with solid pinion spacers
- Oh yeah tires are 315/75/16 Toyo MTs on 16x8 with 4.5 BS Procomp hub mount wheels (7189 wheels)


Mods I still need to do
- Steering limit stops is in progress to limit wheel angle at full lock (got idea from FJ Cruisers and Robert Tech buddy at FIndlay)
- Body mounts need some more trimmiing
- TImbren bumpstops (to be installed before BBB)
- Drop rear bumpstop 1.5"
- Rework front suspension for more travel and lift (1/2") or so
- Rework rear suspension for more droop and lift (1" or so)
- CUrrently I have about 2.5" front lift and 1.5" rear, this is with all the armour and rear cargo system in place
- Cosmetics to cover up the cutting and body lift still to be done, after the hardware is sorted out. The front trimming and bodylift looks ugly at the moment.

I believe doing the rest of the mods will allow me to run the 35s effectively.

Observations:
- Teh 35s are a lot heaveier than the 32s (still need to weigh them guess little over 100lbs mounted on wheel))
- The Tires measure with a stick 34.75" height x 12.5" wide (10" thread width) fitted on the wheel but not mounted on truck. Using a tape actually make them seem 1/4" bigger in all dimensions.
- I really wanted AR chamber teflons, but they were not available till October or something. Reason for the Procomp wheels.
- Fitting the heavy tire on the rear bumper effect the lean (balacing out with fridge on cargo) WIll do more on this later as I sort out the suspension.
- Braking is defintiely affected and it is good to make sure your brakes ar ein top notch. (I have the smaller front rotors)
- Seems to be a good match with 4.56 gears, will know more on performance when going up mountains fully loaded. BBB will be a good test.
- Speedo seems to underread by 12% have not tested odo or mpg properly yet. Will know better after BBB.
- Steerign anglke is limited already with a temp solution, but requires a lot more further work. Doesn't seem to affect any real world situations currently, a few ft extra inthe turning curcle might hurt at a parking lot though, I can't tell the difference currently when dring, but more work and testign needed.
- Road noise is more than with the 32s Revos, can hear it at highway speedswith the radio off.

Anyhow that is what I have for now. It is still experimental and will know better after BBB if it can really be made to work.

[Mikestang]

Originally Posted by bulldog

- Dropped rear bumpstops 3/4"

Can you elaborate on what exactly this is?

That rear stuff looks pretty damn stuffed, is there any rubbing back there at full stuff?

For a front stuff test you probably want to be headed down hill so that more vehicle weight is shifted to the front. In your pict you're going uphill, so the front stuff shown may not represent max stuffage.

[Joel]

Congrats on the stepup Andries, that thing looks MEAN!

Why are you having to drop the bumpstop over 2" for a 1.5" gain in tire diameter after adding the 1.5" bodylift? Is it just the added width of the tire or?

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Joel

Congrats on the stepup Andries, that thing looks MEAN!

Why are you having to drop the bumpstop over 2" for a 1.5" gain in tire diameter after adding the 1.5" bodylift? Is it just the added width of the tire or?

Teh actuall wheel well is not woide enough to truley fit 35s. It is not the height, but the width (as seen from the side). Thus it rubs on the front and the back of the wheel well not the top. SOmething the FJC seems to be better at as they made the wheel wells sligthly wider.

Still lots of work to be done.

[Vegas Runner]

Originally Posted by bulldog

Mods I still need to do
- Rework front suspension for more travel and lift (1/2") or so
- Rework rear suspension for more droop and lift (1" or so)

What are you going to do to "rework" the front and rear suspension?

[Cruiserhead]

Originally Posted by Vegas Runner

What are you going to do to "rework" the front and rear suspension?

I keep telling him, Diamond axles w/ H1 portal ends... but Andries just doesn't listen

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Mikestang

Can you elaborate on what exactly this is?

That rear stuff looks pretty damn stuffed, is there any rubbing back there at full stuff?

For a front stuff test you probably want to be headed down hill so that more vehicle weight is shifted to the front. In your pict you're going uphill, so the front stuff shown may not represent max stuffage.

Yes it rubs pretty bad in the back when stuffing. Dropping the rear bumpstop is just adding a spacer on top of the bumpstop on the frame rail. I dropped it 3/4" (added said spacer) and it still rubbed as in the pic.

Yes still need to test out the front a bit more as well. This is going to be an ongoing experiemnt till it works, or don't work. It will get its first real workout at BBB, and I will takes observations from there to see what else needs to be done.

Originally Posted by Vegas Runner

What are you going to do to "rework" the front and rear suspension?

I need new coils in the back for the added weight of the rear bumper and carriers. I estimate I will carry about 400 - 450 lbs extra in the back with the bumper, tire carrier, gas carrier, 35s tire, hi-lift, platform for cargo system, fridge, CO2 bottle, tools and recovery gear. This will become permanent weight, thus need to adjust for it.

Also since I am droppig the bumpstops, I will need to put in loner shocks to compensate adn get some fo the flex back. I also want shocks that will match the weight and new coils better.

Front is going to get aftermarket UCAs and extended DR COs. This will allow me slightly more height and more front travel.

Originally Posted by Cruiserhead

I keep telling him, Diamond axles w/ H1 portal ends... but Andries just doesn't listen

Yeah I wish, that is still in my dreams. The damn axles will cost more than the 4Runner

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Joel

Congrats on the stepup Andries, that thing looks MEAN!

Why are you having to drop the bumpstop over 2" for a 1.5" gain in tire diameter after adding the 1.5" bodylift? Is it just the added width of the tire or?

Actually I meant drop the rear bumpstops 1.5" in total, not add another 1.5" to the existing 3/4".


The 35s actually give me 2" extra ground clearance over the Revos. I was expecting it going from an A/T to rather large M/T.

Another interesting stat is the Revos mounted on the OEM wheels are 68lbs adn the Toyos on the Procomp wheels are 103lbs a piece

Installed the TImbren bumpstops today, but I defintely will need to do something about the rear suspension as there is about 1" between the timbren bottom and axle. That includes the 1.5" bumpstop drop. Teh rear bumper, heavy spare and cargo system, fridge with slide, CO2 bottle, recovery and tools does weigh things down

[bulldog]

I dropped the rear bumpstops to 1.5" total and fitted the TImbrens (front and back). I also adjsuted the steering stops a little as well.

After a little wheeling and flexing at Hollister I never noticed any rubbing, so I guess BBB will be the first real test on that front.

[bulldog]

I almost forgot. I measured the odo and speedo today.

Both underread significantly with the 35s, and it is worthwhile to keep it in mind.

When the speedo reads 60, I'm actually doing 67.6, and when it shows 70 I'm doing 78.7. Thus I need to add 12.% to my speedo for actual speed.

On the Odo, when it shows I have travelled 100 miles I haev actually travelled 116 miles, thus I need to add 16% to the miles I have travelled.

Teh odo is not really surprising since the Lexus and the Prius both have pessimistic odos, you actually do more miles than they show. Something to keep in mind when doing fuel consumption calculations as well.

I have not done enough real driving to get proper gas mileage, but I will log my mileage for the BBB trip.

[Crozhawk]

well it looks great! wheels are still a very nice choice and you definitely got the right tires
Is there any way to even the lines a little better on the front fenders?
i dig the sliders w/ the kickout too, much better protection there and nice big step for getting up top. Not to get too offtopic but if you use em, they may bend up enough to cause your rear doors not to clear. I've had to bend mine back down with a pipe after some hard sliding. looks really badass now, nice job!

[AlexJet]

Looking great Andries.
Give more details about how well gears and lockers work with 35 and how you like this setup in off-road and hwy condition.
What is wrong with body mount trim?
Why you need to limit your steering? How are you going to do it?
Could you post more pictures, pls....

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Crozhawk

well it looks great! wheels are still a very nice choice and you definitely got the right tires
Is there any way to even the lines a little better on the front fenders?
i dig the sliders w/ the kickout too, much better protection there and nice big step for getting up top. Not to get too offtopic but if you use em, they may bend up enough to cause your rear doors not to clear. I've had to bend mine back down with a pipe after some hard sliding. looks really badass now, nice job!

Thx.

I am planning on cleaning up the cosmetics this winter, after I'm confident that all the needed trimming is done. I do need to clean up the front fenders quite a but, and might need to do some clean up of the rear fenders. No point in startign with the cosmetics till I have a working solution.

Yeah I'm concerned about the sliders as well. I shall see how it works out. Luke from 4x4labs have dome similar setups for many cruisers, that have done the Rubicon, with no apparent issues. But time will tell. I do like the rear kickout for a step to get to the roof, as I'm looking at getting a low profile roof rack (will barely fit in the garage).

Originally Posted by AlexJet

Looking great Andries.
Give more details about how well gears and lockers work with 35 and how you like this setup in off-road and hwy condition.
What is wrong with body mount trim?
Why you need to limit your steering? How are you going to do it?
Could you post more pictures, pls....

Lockers work great with the 35s, can make climbs that were much harder before with ease now (well the exra grip of 35 MTs come into play as well).

As to gearing, the 4.56s feels just right to me with the 35s and all the extra weight the 4RUnner carries. Shifts good and has good power on uphills. Will now how it does after BBB, when I climb the mountian with a good load. The 35s does take a chunk out of your performance so gearing will be important. Offroad it works great, gives a little more grunt, even with the larger tires.

I would like a little more of the body mount, will look into that.

FOr a temp solution I drilled and tapped holes at the balljoint attachment, where the stock steerign stop is. I added a grade 12 bolt for now, but looking for a proper steering stop. Limits the angle somewhat, which pretty much eliminates the rubbing so far. Time will tell on this one. WIll tkae pics later, when I have a godo feelign it will work.

[AlexJet]

Originally Posted by bulldog

As to gearing, the 4.56s feels just right to me with the 35s and all the extra weight the 4RUnner carries. Shifts good and has good power on uphills. Will now how it does after BBB, when I climb the mountian with a good load. The 35s does take a chunk out of your performance so gearing will be important. Offroad it works great, gives a little more grunt, even with the larger tires.

You have the same gears All-Pro is selling (Toyota gears from Iceland), are you?
I can understand you. I have 33 MTR, bumper, winch, skids, load and stock gears; on the highway it shifting down 1 or 2 gears every uphill even small one. This weekend my consumption on the highway (110km/h - 70mph) was 18 l/100km - 13mpg with full truck loaded with gears and the 15 l/100km - 16mpg on country road (90km/h - 55mph)

FOr a temp solution I drilled and tapped holes at the balljoint attachment, where the stock steerign stop is. I added a grade 12 bolt for now, but looking for a proper steering stop. Limits the angle somewhat, which pretty much eliminates the rubbing so far. Time will tell on this one. WIll tkae pics later, when I have a godo feelign it will work.

Is it just to avoid rubbing or there are some more serious reasons?

[Photog]

Judging by your speedo & odo readings, your gearing is similar to having 33" tires on factory gears.

My 32.2" (275/70R17) are 5% off on the speedo & 7% off on odo, with factory gears.

Your rig looks really great! It will be even better when you get all the articulation issues worked out.

[Joel]

From my understanding the speedo and odo work off of the wheel speed sensors, thus the gears should have no effect on them.

Here is Andries' post on the subject: http://www.toyota120.com/forum/showp...9&postcount=39

[Photog]

I checked out the link. I now understand.

The whole system has to be calculted out, to determine gear ratio from engine to pavement. The speedometer gets its readings after the gears, and before the tires.

If all you did was to re-gear, your speedo would remain the same (and accurate); but engine RPM would change. Then, when the tire size is increased, the speedometer is no longer accurate; but the RPM and actual speed get closer to normal again.

Thanks for the info.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by AlexJet

You have the same gears All-Pro is selling (Toyota gears from Iceland), are you?
I can understand you. I have 33 MTR, bumper, winch, skids, load and stock gears; on the highway it shifting down 1 or 2 gears every uphill even small one. This weekend my consumption on the highway (110km/h - 70mph) was 18 l/100km - 13mpg with full truck loaded with gears and the 15 l/100km - 16mpg on country road (90km/h - 55mph)

Yes the fronts were sourced from Allpro, see the thread on lockers and gears. All the info for it is in there. For me to be able to get an accurate estimate on fuel consumption, I will need to factor in odo error for the larger tires(did you?) Also on the BBB trip I will hit a lot of mountain passes to get there, so I will try to keep record of going through mountains and on flat highway. My aim was to have a rig that can still achieve 14-15MPG on the highway with roofrack and loaded for a trip. If it is slightly lower than that with lots of stuff on the roofrack I will be OK, but unloaded I wanted to get at least 15 MPG on the highway (doing 70-75 MPH).

One of the main reasons I got the V8 with 5spd auto originally was that I had it in the bakc of my mind that the rig will be heavy with armour and fitted with big tires it will need all the torque and gears it can get, so I got the best I could at the end of 02.

Is it just to avoid rubbing or there are some more serious reasons?

Rubbing, but also limiting CV and steerign angle offroad to help prevent breakages.

Seems like I will need to get a PS cooler in the future as the PS fluid gets pretty hot after some slow crawling work. Might be agood upgrade anyway, as it always get pretty hot. Heat kills fluid, so flushed my system with amsoil syn ATF, which will hopefully help a bit.

[bulldog]

Originally Posted by Photog

Judging by your speedo & odo readings, your gearing is similar to having 33" tires on factory gears.

My 32.2" (275/70R17) are 5% off on the speedo & 7% off on odo, with factory gears.

Your rig looks really great! It will be even better when you get all the articulation issues worked out.

I think Joel clarified part of it. Teh 4.56s are actually geared lower than factory 3.73 with stock 31" tires. Reason for that is to compensate for the extra truck weight with armour, but also the extra rotational inertia of the larger and heaveir tires.

A stock truck will run circles aorund me at this point, even with 4.56 gears. But at least my performance shoudl still be pretty good, hopefully up the mountains as well. Would hate to be stuck in 2nd up steep grades